Hiring Partner's Office

Hello again

2011-06-11T10:19:00.001-07:00

Hello all - old and new readers. A poster asked if I could give some advice for someone returning to the workplace/firm for full time employment after having spent a summer or otherwise interning. The poster wondered if it would be a good idea to re-introduce themselves. I say, absolutely. Great idea - in fact, if you were following my earlier posts, you hopefully got the sense that you should maintain relationships all along. So, let's say you spent a summer, had an offer, accepted, and came back the next fall. Why wait until you return? Stay in contact with those who you seem to have forged relationships. I quick email - hello, or passing along an interesting article - almost always appreciated.

This touches on a theme I think you've heard me echo. Your career is just that -- a CAREER. It is not a one time job, a summer, a couple of years, etc. Even if you change workplaces, type of work, or take some time off, that does not mean that you should stop connecting. You MUST maintain and build your connections/networks. Your career is more like running cross-country than track -- a long and winding course rather than a quick sprint till you are done.

I had a former colleague who got laid off, and then decided to spend some time with her young kids. Fine. Then she wanted to start working again. I told her about a job right near her house that would be a great fit where a mutual friend of ours was hiring (notice: connection). She didn't move on it, and the opportunity passed. Then she went to work outside of the law for a bit. She asked for a reference, which I took care of quickly. Then I never heard from her again. I even had an opportunity for her in my firm. She was MIA. Nothing wrong with her, just not connecting. Guess what...she's back....wanting to get back into the legal field. Am I inclined to help her - well actually I do like her a lot and would try. But, was she smart about checking out, only to check in when she needed something? NOOOOOOO...dumb move.

Listen people - technology has made it so much simpler to stay in touch - "Link" with someone and send them a note every now and then; shoot someone a quick email saying hello, checking in on how some project went, or was everything ok, etc., send an article that may be of interest, if appropriate ask how a family member is doing ("has Janie decided where she's going to college, I really enjoyed speaking with her about XYZ university"). This is so easy, yet so overlooked. I usually take about 10 minutes every day, just to do some checking in emails. Remember - out of sight means out of mind, and you never know when that contact may be needed/useful to advance your career or for other important reasons. And of course, some of us actually just enjoy staying in touch !

So, this coming week, make it a goal to check in with 5 people. It doesn't require follow up, but if you want to set up coffee, lunch, etc. Go ahead! Even better.

Starting again

2011-04-27T17:09:00.000-07:00

Hey guys and gals. HP took a break, a long break. Why? Family stuff, work stuff, burnout. But I'm thinking of starting back up. I just wonder, would that be useful? Maybe our readers have found new, terrific sites? Let me know what you think, and what would be helpful topics.

You might be wondering what HP thinks of the legal economy. Well, I think things are picking up. My recruiter friends are definitely busier and say even associate hiring is FINALLY improving. Will we return to the old days? Probably not, some things have changed long-term (like some firms canceling summer programs and just hiring laterals). But, it is good to see firms and organizations adding to their ranks.

Ok, just a short post, give me a holler in the comments and let me know what you think.

bus development - gotta put in the time

2010-05-01T07:20:00.000-07:00

See my post over at lawshucks: http://lawshucks.com/2010/04/if-at-first-you-dont-succeed/

TMI - TOO MUCH INFORMATION

2010-04-02T08:07:00.000-07:00

Today's post over at lawshucks.com:

http://lawshucks.com/2010/04/sharing-is-not-caring-keeping-things-to-yourself/

No badmouthing

2010-03-27T04:53:00.001-07:00

See my article on not badmouthing current/past employers and colleagues at: http://lawshucks.com/2010/03/remember-what-your-mother-taught-you/

the me file - from HP's weekly post on Law Shucks

2010-03-15T03:45:00.001-07:00

http://lawshucks.com/2010/03/the-me-file/

Law Shucks

2010-03-06T16:13:00.001-08:00

Hi all, you can view my guest post on Lawshucks.com. This week's topic is: CYA

http://lawshucks.com/2010/03/cya/

answering more questions

2010-03-03T17:49:00.000-08:00

One of our readers indicated that he (or she?) has a job offer for a summer associate position at a firm this summer. The class is around 6 people. The firm usually has a much larger class. Our reader asked whether I think this bodes well for getting an offer. HP doesn't have a crystal ball, but my educated guess is that yes, I think the firm would try to give offers to the smaller class. To me, it's a good sign that the firm has made a careful decision to minimize the class size. Presumably the firm has looked to its future needs, such as surveying department heads for their anticipated needs going forward when you would eventually join. Following this analysis, the firm concluded that a number around 6 would be the right number. Now, assuming the firm didn't want 3 and got extra acceptances, I think the chances of an offer are good. However, I agree you still need to be great. Firms won't feel so uncomfortable about "no offering" this summer. You need to produce top notch work product, be positive, participate in whatever social events they have, and not make any social faux pas. So, be on your guard just the same as last year - remember the whole summer is an interview. Everything counts - office presence, work product, the way you communicate orally, in writing (including e-mails), treatment of other attorneys, staff, etc. Be on your game.

Monday Musings

2010-03-01T17:10:00.000-08:00

Hello all. Some of you may have already seen my post, but in case you didn't, I will be guest blogging weekly over at www.lawshucks.com -- my first installment was last Friday. The good folk at lawshucks.com have created an excellent source of information on the comings and goings in the law industry. I encourage you to check out their site.

Now, you may be asking: "if HP can barely keep up her own blog, how can she guest elsewhere"? Well, I, too, have had that thought. I'm hoping that being busy just keeps me moving faster. I know I am best when I have multiple deadlines. I am hoping to use my site for specific advice - e.g., when I am answering questions, and more general career guidance. Much of my advice goes beyond BigLaw and even law in general, and relates to general workplace getting along and getting ahead. Over at lawshucks, I will focus on big picture items, I think.

Someone asked about taking multiple bars as a fall back. As in, they are going to work in State A, but think maybe they should take the bars in States B and C to make themselves more marketable. Well, I think it depends on a few factors. Does the firm you are going to encourage multiple bars? I have a friend who works for a firm in DC. They have VA and MD offices. The firm likes for their lawyers, especially litigators, to have DC and one of either VA or MD. Will your firm pay for the dues on other state bars? This is actually an important question and can add up significantly. Another important question my cousin didn't really consider when she took an extra bar were the CLE and other ongoing requirements. She had no interest in the short, or even long, term practicing in the state, yet there were many requirements for ongoing dues and other payments and mandatory CLE. In the end, she had to give up the bar membership since (if I remember correctly), they didn't really have an inactive status that didn't require payments. And, do you have the time to study and take these extra bars? You certainly don't want to take away any time from your main bar, as these days, firms aren't likely to look positively on failing bar results.

Now, moving on to the big picture, I recently got invited to a professional conference. The list of the speakers was set forth in the email. I noticed the name of a man I know, and he was listed at a firm other than the one where I first met him. I was pretty surprised so I googled him and sure enough, he had just moved. Why was I surprised? After all, tons of people make lateral moves. I was surprised because this guy was such a "company man," he had at one time managed the office of the prior firm. When I met him he was super gung ho on the place. I truly saw him as a lifer there. Which brings me to the point. Remember, there is no loyalty in BigLaw. People move for so many reasons. Sometimes they take people with, other times not. Even people who seems like they will sail off into retirement from Firm ABC suddenly make unexpected moves. So, don't go someplace just because you really like Partner Susan, or associate Tom was so fun and hip. It's happened to me that when you show up, those people could already be gone. Really goes back to the point I made on lawshucks last Friday -- and I've made here before -- that you have to always look out for yourself -- whether it is positioning yourself for your own move at some point, or recognizing that you don't want to only work for X because X might leave next week and not take you and then you're hosed because you haven't worked with anyone else. People move, things change. Be careful about hitching your wagon too closely -- be more like a UHAUL attachment that can attach and unattach to various pulls.

social networking - does it help?

2010-02-18T04:01:00.000-08:00

Some people ask whether participation in social networking -- Facebook, Linkedin, etc. actually helps in the career/job search world. I do think there's a benefit to getting back in touch and staying in touch with your contacts. But, of course, remember if you write silly things on Facebook, your business contacts who are your FB "friends" will see these things just as your real friends will. So, I usually recommend keeping pure business contacts on Linkedin and friends on Facebook. But what if, say, a client or other business contact "friends" you? Then, what do you do? Well, I've had this happen. A client who I also know socially friended me. In fact, I have a couple of them. I accepted the friend requests -- felt that it would be too weird not to -- but when I post updates, pics, etc., I try in the back of my mind to remember that it's not just my high school classmates reading and posting to my FB -- it also includes the clients.

Now, getting back to my original point...does any of this social networking actually help you in the career advancement world? Yes, I think getting back in touch, and staying in touch with people can help advance your career. It's certainly better than doing nothing at all, of course. I always tell people that if you are interested in a new job, you should let people know. As far as creating opportunities generally, the social networking sites will help put you in the mind of some former colleagues/classmates who otherwise might not think of you.

Case in point. Just recently, I needed a local counsel in a different part of the country. I could ask my colleagues for recommendations and I did that. I thought for a minute. Do I know anyone who practices in this metropolitan area? This is a matter for a very important client and I want someone I know and can trust. I didn't think I knew anyone in this area. But then the light bulb went off. Someone from law school who I am Facebook friends with does practice in the area. And his postings occasionally talk about court -- so I know he litigates locally. I called him. He answered...and it looks like he and his firm may end up serving as our local counsel. Without Facebook, I would not have thought about him. He may very well end up getting a significant referral from this, and possible follow up work.

I can talk more about social networking for job searches in another post but wanted to touch on this recent connection before it slipped my mind.

For those who have come back to HP's Office blog as I've returned....thank you.

(btw, no, right now we are not hiring 3Ls or entry level associates).

RETURN?

2010-02-17T04:43:00.000-08:00

Hi all. I'm sorry I had to curtail my blogging for awhile. There was just a lot going on personally and professionally and I just couldn't keep up. I am starting to feel like I can resume the blogging -- but I wonder if you are still interested? And if so, what interests you most these days? I hope things have improved for the job seekers -- I do feel like I see more opportunities starting to open up out there -- though I still hear from clients that they are under tremendous budget constraints. Clients are definitely handling more things in-house these days - trying to do things on their own rather than calling outside lawyers. I think the opportunities I have seen more recently are in-house, governmental, etc.

Anyway, let me have your thoughts? Continue? Topics?

getting out

2009-11-19T03:59:00.001-08:00

I talk a lot about networking. I thought some concrete examples might be helpful.

As HP toiled away for many years at BigLaw, I realize now that I overlooked the opportunities to be had by getting out of the office more -- say to attend bar events, CLE, etc. Even though we all have work, family, social and other obligations, we shouldn't overlook the benefits to leaving the office to interact with contacts and potential contacts.

Recently, I attended a continuing education program. It was just a few hours so did not take up the whole day, which was great. I showed up a little early. I sat down and the person next to me turned to me since he was sitting alone. We introduced ourselves. It turns out that he works at a very large, well-known company. During breaks in the program, we chatted briefly. At the end, I asked him for his card and offered to email him if I saw future programs like this one that might be helpful. I also reconnected with another contact that day and exchanged follow-up emails. A few weeks back, I attended an evening reception. I invited a client contact as a guest since our firm had extra tickets (this almost always happens). While there, I spoke to a number of people. I also, again, reconnected with a lawyer from another firm I have worked with before. A couple weeks later, another contact at that firm called me to see if I might be interested in a lateral move over. Coincidence? No....when I saw lawyer one at the reception, that put me in his mind and he passed on the follow up request to his colleague. My point here is that even though it may be inconvenient, or you think you don't have the time, make the time to get out -- especially when these events are minimal time investments, it's fairly easy to do. And then follow-up. I have sent new guy from continuing ed an email already...you need to do this promptly.

Another item I have mentioned is getting involved in bar and other organizations. Some years back, I poo-pooed this as a waste of time and just hanging out with lawyer competitors. But it is really good for raising your profile, building your network, and being in touch with potential career opportunities. A partner in my firm speaks highly of an associate at another firm. Why? Because the associate co-chairs a subcommittee he's been on of a large bar organization. I've seen the associate on numerous panels. Why? Because of her outside committee work and the continued development of her expertise.

So, keep at it....find something you like and are interested in. For women, the women's bar events in your area can be great networking opportunities. For everyone, specialty bars exist for certain practice areas. There's also affinity bars for certain groups (e.g., Asian bar association). Pick something and get involved.

Women as Rainmakers

2009-10-30T03:51:00.000-07:00

Several recent articles have highlighted that women partners in law firms tend not to be in the top tier of firm rainmakers. We could debate over the course of several blogs the causes of this issue (and maybe we will?); a past experience and a recent experience shed some light on part of the problem.

Those who study how we, especially women, communicate in the workplace often say that women can be too apologetic, too trying to please everyone, and trying not to offend. "You may have already tried this approach, but how about trying to move the depositions to ..." You see the lead in cuts into the woman's idea. I can recall a meeting probably about 10 years ago when I was a mid/senior associate in a big meeting (and the only woman). We were reviewing a pleading and trying to come up with a different word for what was being said. The GC of a big client was in the room as well as partners from my law firm and partners from another big firm. I suggested a word; I believe it was "scheme." They kept going on. Maybe 2 minutes later, big mouth partner W from other firm said "scheme." The GC and others all loved it and it got in. I shook my head....was this the Twilight Zone? Didn't I just say that? It wasn't that I said "well, this isn't very good, but how about scheme?" That of course wouldn't have been good. I think W just said it louder and with more force -- and perhaps his thoughts held more weight at the time. But maybe my voice hesitated, maybe I was a little too meek in my suggestion. When we feel less confident or unsure -- we need to overcome that and speak up, just like W. Remember, not all successful attorneys and other professionals are successful simply because they are smarter or worker harder than you or me; some of them just project confidence and aren't afraid to promote their ideas and themselves.

Finally, a recent case in point illustrates this point of women being too cautious, too afraid of ruffling feathers in the rainmaking category. Lawyer Anna came to HP because Anna got a referral from another firm where a family member works. The area of law was not in a field Anna practices. Rather, other lawyers in the firm would be doing the work and Anna had touched base with a partner in that other group to see if the matter would be something partner would be interested in. Partner had a preliminary conversation with referral client to explain to referral client the qualifications of the particular practice. Anna was wondering how to go about formally opening the client matter. She said she was going to talk to partner and ask partner if it was OK to run a conflicts check, open the sheets etc. I told her she needed to be more proactive -- this was her baby -- the client came in through her family member, not because they knew the other partner (I also happened to think other partner would understand that and other partner not overly confrontational). I said to her, instead of asking, you need to be proactive in a non-chalant kind of way. Oh, partner X, I've got Susan (secretary) running the conflict check to make sure there's no issues, and she's working on an engagement letter and the new client sheets. I will let you know when everything is clear."

See, in this manner, Anna gets the client credit, and looks proactive, and doesn't have to fight over credit. She's making rain and it really isn't open to debate...the papers are just moving ahead. Now, we might discuss the issue of a more difficult partner to deal with/position of authority, but this is my advice. We, as women -- and really this is advice relevant to all -- need to be less hesitant and more proactive, less apologetic -- especially when it comes to getting business, collecting from clients, etc. There's plenty of ways to deal with these issues without causing any major rifts in the relationship.

Thoughts?

negotiating; further on networking

2009-10-29T06:05:00.001-07:00

Interesting questions and feedback, thanks. For the individual who was asking about negotiating salary, I just don't think this is the time to do that. There are so many candidates for jobs, most of them well qualified, that firms and businesses don't really have to negotiate in most situations. You don't want to be viewed as a prima donna or otherwise high maintenance from the start. These days, firms and businesses figure if the candidate won't accept on the terms offered, they can just move on.

An interesting aside I thought I would mention. I talk about networking a lot, but thought you could use some examples. Recently, I was at a seminar. At the end of the seminar, some people stayed around to introduce selves, exchange business cards, etc. I re-introduced myself to a lawyer I had worked with some years back. We had a good conversation. In fact, I need to email him to tell him I enjoyed the program (he was partially responsible for it). But here's the networking part. Another woman walked up to the same guy while I was leaving. I don't think she knew him. But, she went right out and asked him if he knew anything about a job recently posted at a great, interesting company for a counsel in the area of practice that the seminar focused on. The funny thing is that I had seen that job and it interested me too, not that I was necessarily applying but I thought it sounded like a fabulous opportunity with cool issues. This lady was reaching out to the speaker guy to see if he had details about the position -- but she probably wanted to see if he had any connections there. Now, I am not sure how effective this is overall if he doesn't know her and thus probably wouldn't be recommending her....but I thought it certainly showed some initiative and using networking to at least on the surface find out more about the job. I couldn't hear the rest of the conversation so I am not sure if it was a productive one, but at least the lady did something proactive, which is more than I did just kind of thinking about the job. Remember, thinking doesn't get you the job, you need to undertake steps to move your resume forward.

return

2009-10-20T03:33:00.000-07:00

Hello...I know it's been awhile...and I apologize to those who were waiting. Life things came up and between work and home, I had to take a break from the blog. If you still want to read, great; if you're tired of waiting and need more consistency, feel free to move on. I will try to post at least twice a week - perhaps with a specific goal I will be more consistent.

So, what have I been seeing? Well, I do think things are picking up -- but mainly for people with experience. And, of course, there's many applicants for each job...but the good news is I think I see more jobs out there. Entry level, of course, much harder. Many firms are moving away to the "way we've always done things" and deciding that when they do need to hire again, they can go into the lateral pool.

With a couple exceptions, people I know who have obtained new jobs have gotten them through a combo of qualifications and -- you knew this was coming - networking. With so many people submitting resumes into "blind boxes," it really makes a difference if you can come up with some connection between you and the organization where you are seeking a job. Does your former roommate have a relative who works at XYZ company? It may be they can get your resume in the hands of someone who will pay attention to it. Think about who you may know at the firm/organization where you would like to work. Use sources like Linkedin to look for connections. Don't be shy (well unless you have a job and looking laterally and you need to keep it kind of quiet). Put yourself out there.

Now, if you have someone who helps -- by giving you advice on the phone, by forwarding your resume, etc...make sure you show some appreciation....sometimes HP and HP's friends have helped out and then we never hear from that person. Bad form. Your career is all about building -- building knowledge, building expertise, and yes, building your network. I'm not saying you have to send flowers, but if someone takes time out to help you, you should certainly show some appreciation -- even a short note: Dear HP, I've landed a new job at: XYZ company. Here's my new contact information. Thank you so much for your advice during my search. Please don't hesitate to let me know if I can be assistance, and let's schedule lunch over the next month." Remember - think in the now but look into the future. Build build build.

answering some questions

2009-08-21T04:29:00.000-07:00

Hello gang: sorry it has been awhile. Life interrupted blogging. I think the next several weeks will be interesting as we hear about OCI, fall out from summer 2009 (sorry but I think we will see some heavy no offers), and what the summer 08 class does to fill their time until Jan 2010, assuming that date holds.

What I would (and I bet our readers) would like to hear from you is...what are some creative "getting job" solutions you've heard about - or implemented yourselves? I'm looking for some stories of creative solutions to the "what do I do till Jan 2010" and "what do I do if I am no offered from Summer 2009?" Or any other job hunting stories you have to share - e.g., post layoffs too. I can share my thoughts but I always think a broader range of opinions is helpful.

So feel free to chime in.

Some recent questions: thank you notes after summer associateship. Yes, good idea to send to HP and others with whom you worked, nothing wrong with showing your appreciation and continued interest. I got some email ones and that was fine with me, but I do think you get a little more "bang" with a note because we get soooo many emails every day that it kind of goes flashing by and opening a note takes a little more time.

A blog reader asked about her intention to move to a new city (and interviewing with firms there) because she is recently engaged. She wondered if mentioning the engagement somehow worked against her. No, this is a perfectly reasonable explanation for why you are changing cities and your connection to the area. And, a very common one we have seen many times. No worries. Just explain that your fiance is in new city; you intend to make this your home, and this is the only city in which you are now interviewing.

Someone I don't know well asked me for a reference. I would be happy to scream "this person is great" for someone I worked with and I do think is great; however, I really can't do a reference for someone whose work and workplace/social interaction I have never observed. That would, among other things, affect my credibility with the people to whom I am recommending candidate. So, be cautious when you think about references. You really want someone with whom you have worked. Someone who has seen your interactions in the workplace and socially and someone who has reviewed your work product. And, this is a hard one, but you want someone who you feel will give a glowing, fabulous, enthusiastic recommendation. When we call to reference check, we can pick up on "he is good" versus "this is the best lawyer since Clarence Darrow and we wish we weren't losing him to your city." It might just be the person talking and maybe they are not the bubbly type, but if you can target your reference person to be someone you think will really sell you, focus on that person.

I am thinking of instituting or re-instituting a "tip of the day" to get some quick advice out and keep the blog going.

First tip of the day: sometimes we all need to recognize that the suits that fit us, say, last year, are kind of too tight now. Yes, we gained a little weight. Sometimes we just need to accept this, and go to another size until we can get back into the old ones. I've seen some horrible skin tight suits on men and women alike. It is not attractive when we can see the outline of your body parts. Not professional and quite distracting. Do yourself a favor and invest in something slightly larger. You can always donate the "bigger suits" to a good cause like one of those putting people back in the workforce groups once you get back to fighting weight.

resumes question

2009-07-26T17:14:00.000-07:00

Someone asked about how much information to put in the "personal" section of the resume. This person inquired whether they should list that they came to the United States via the asylum process.

A commenter pointed out that it might be awkward for the interviewers to ask about the asylum notation. I agree. There are many restrictions regarding what we can and cannot ask about in an interview - including age, marital status, national origin, etc. I would be concerned as an interviewer about asking the candidate regarding his or her asylum notation out of concern it might run afoul of employment laws and regulations. To me, this seems like something you could address in an interview. Like where an interviewer asked about difficult challenges you have faced, or unique circumstances, or why you went to law school. I think in that context, your asylum situation would be an interesting and unique take on those questions.

As for other things in the "personal" section, I don't usually spend too much time looking at it; honestly, I would really only remember if it had something unusual (or odd) - which wouldn't necessarily be a good thing. Most of them say similar things - cooking, travel, road races, etc. I am more impressed when people show me deep experience and an ability to juggle - since that is what we do every day in law firms - we typically don't get to work on one memo all day or for multiple days until we feel satisfied; rather we have to put out multiple fires and oftentimes when we think we will spend the afternoon doing one thing, a separate unexpected issue comes up and totally derails our plans.

So, if you've supported yourself by working through college/law school - that is something I think should be noted. If you served in the military - say in Iraq and commanded a unit -- yes, that is relevant and important experience -- clearly you could operate under stress! (And yes, I have seen reference letters from commanding officers that did help a candidate get a job).

If you've had unusual and challenging internships, note those as well. I would just stay away from too much personal stuff. Are you moving to a "new" city to be with your fiance? Not for the resume, but more for the interview or perhaps cover letter to explain your connection.

I prefer one page resumes, but if you've had a LOT of work experience -- i.e., you took time between college and law school of more than a couple years -- and you feel you need to go to the next page - then go ahead. But bear in mind some reviewers may not turn the page.

Blog's One Year Anniversary - Partial Reveal!

2009-07-22T16:58:00.000-07:00

Hello everyone. I am sorry I haven't blogged lately. As you know, HP is of course a practicing attorney and HP got really busy with work and multiple deadlines, plus various social commitments. I will try to blog more often in the coming weeks.

No, I wasn't out celebrating the big one year anniversary of the blog. Can you believe it has been one year since I launched with my list of the top things that annoy the hiring partner? I really had no big plans to become a blogger, per se, I just kept seeing certain behaviors in our younger lawyers that I knew were really hurting them. Has this changed? Well, to a certain extent, due to the economy and the massive change in the way law firms hire and retain lawyers, I do think there's less a sense of entitlement than we had been seeing. There's still plenty of room for guidance and improvement.

I will answer some of your questions in upcoming posts but I really felt for the big one year anniversary, something momentous was required. Something exciting. Well, no, F-3 and I are not running off to the sunshine of the blogsphere to live happily ever after. Though I certainly appreciate all F-3 has done in his/her contributions to the blog. And I appreciate the contributions of the rest of you (except of course when you are slamming HP with really nasty comments).

Which brings me to the big one year celebration announcement. Are you ready? Really ready?

(heck I am not sure I am ready)......

HP is a Woman!

Yes, a female. So many of you just assumed HP was a man. (Some of you still doubt I am even a lawyer, but I can assure you I am in possession of a valid law degree and bar membership). I am not certain why so many assumed I am a man. Because I am a partner? A Hiring Partner? Heck, plenty of Hiring Partners are women. Was it because I often tell it how it is, kind of straight up, whether it seems harsh or not? I am not sure, but for those who sometimes accused me of not having a women's point of view, or being anti-woman (which I and those who have worked with me found comical), it may simply have been because I was trying to be gender neutral.

OK, so what does this mean? Well I hoped you've learned that assumptions can often be wrong. And, hopefully this doesn't change anything. I still aspire to give you useful advice - don't worry guys I am there for you. For our women readers, I'm hoping this opens up more of a discourse on women's issues in the workplace. Believe me, I have been there. No one has handed me anything and I know it is not easy. We can't do it all, 100 percent. Some of us can do a bunch of things pretty (or really) well. But superwoman does not exist. You have to recognize you can't have it all, all the time. That's been my conclusion. Sometimes I'm a great parent; sometimes I'm a great lawyer; sometimes I am both; but other times if I'm being a great lawyer and working all night to get something done and missing activities - no, I'm not being a terrific parent. I guess we will discuss some of this down the road.

Well, I hope that was exciting and I look forward to some thought provoking comments and questions.

Best,

ranking; other points of view

2009-07-08T04:21:00.001-07:00

Hey folks, on the ranking, I would go with "no layoffs" but the problem is you wouldn't necessarily know about the stealth ones. I would look at where my best chances are - do they usually hire multiple candidates from my school, would my grades and other credentials normally make the cut, etc. What area do I want to do, and do they have a substantial practice in that area (assuming I know). As I said, shoot wide because it is going to be extremely difficult to get a summer 2L gig AND after that, even if you've done a solid job, no offer may follow.

I've been meaning to reach out to our practicing lawyer and recruiter readers. I am guessing you have some great ideas to contribute here. Folks, what have you seen this summer or during last year's interviews that candidates should know they should do differently? What really "saved" a candidate. HP has a lot of experience, but mine is only one person's and I would welcome your thoughts....and I bet our readers would as well.

Separate note: I sent an email to someone recently. I think the guy is out on vacation. Odd out of office message specifically indicating he is not checking messages and you may wish to call when he gets back because your message might get lost in all his emails that have come in while he was out. I thought this was an odd message. I mean I got the point, but if I were a client, I might think he was saying my matter wasn't particularly important and he's just so busy with other stuff he might forget about my matter. I just think there's ways to convey these types of messages in ways that make clients and others confident that their matters are or can be covered and that they are important. Even though clients know we have other clients, they also like to know that they are a top priority. A better way would be to say "I will be in an area with limited Internet access, but in my absence you can contact my colleagues xyz and abc, who have been briefed on outstanding matters and should be in a position to assist you [and will know how to reach me]. I've often found that most things do wait till after vacation or other absences, but putting a confident message out really helps.

Hope the week goes well.

"ranking"

2009-07-04T05:30:00.001-07:00

Someone asked about how to rank firms for fall OCI -- in summary, whether firms that have laid off might be better prospects since they have shed "extra weight," or whether lay offs are a sign of a firm's instability and in essence, mean the firm really has no need for further people. In a normal law firm world, I would say to regard firms that have done lay offs very cautiously. But, nothing about the current state of the legal market is normal.

Hence, my answer to "how do you rank is?"..... are you crazy? I would rank the firms by "where the hell might I get a job?" This is not a law student/associate market. Did you miss that? I'm sorry, but those days are over. Hopefully, the firms going on campus in fact have slots to fill and hopefully they are being very careful with their numbers. I know hiring partners and recruiting staff who have already called law schools (yes, even top 25 law schools) and indicated they are not coming on campus this fall. So, if you've got firms coming on campus, I presume they have some slots to fill. And, at the end of the day, if you wind up with multiple offers, then great for you. At that point (when you have offers), I would start the "ranking" process -- where do I feel comfortable, what is the firm's reputation in the area (for possible movement later, for instance), what do legal and other news say about the firm? This is when we would consider lay offs. For me, if it is a choice between a lay-off firm and one that hasn't done layoffs, I think I would lean toward the non-layoff firms, but you need to do some homework - how are the departments staffed, do they seem overstaffed? How did the associates seem, did morale seem good? Perhaps you can talk to someone who spent the summer there this past summer. Do your homework. But that is when you have an offer.

At this point, before you have an offer, go fishing. Throw that net out far and wide. The days of the law firm world as your oyster are over. Ranking will be for after the offer. Take the interviews you get and go in with a positive attitude to all - even if maybe it's not your first choice -- it may be your only choice. Sorry to be harsh, but that is the way of the law firm market today.

Happy 4th.

evaluations; and further on the too casuals

2009-06-25T03:44:00.000-07:00

On the "too casuals" post, I was trying to get across that you need to be cautious about slang, digs, curses - I don't think that is particularly radical. It is one thing if you have a close working relationship with someone and you are in a fairly comfortable one on one situation, but it is another entirely when you don't know someone very well and you might do or say something they find offensive. Case in point, which I think I've mentioned before, the religious client. I worked with a GC who, as time went on, I learned was deeply religious. Bible studies classes, Sunday school teacher, etc. Very clean living. Thus, I made an extra effort to avoid words phrases like "if the company takes this route you could get screwed," in favor of the more general "the company could face some penalties if you take this route." In any event, I wouldn't say screwed to any client b/c it is not professional and I don't know some of them well enough to throw that out there. I was just saying that you should be cautious. In this precarious legal market, why give people reasons to question your judgment? What is the big deal with remembering that this is a professional environment and you should always keep that in mind?

Some of you may be getting to a mid-point during your summer associate terms. Have you received input? I like firms that provide a mid-point evaluation. If you haven't received input on your work product, etc., ask the HP or recruiting coordinator if you could schedule a time. If there's little things that can be fixed -- like proofing better -- that is something you could hear about now - rather than at the end of the summer, which can be cured in subsequent work product. I know most of us don't like to hear criticism, but it is useful for this job and in the future. If there's something you disagree with - like you followed one line of thinking because the assigning partner put it in the work assignment form - then go ahead and explain that, calmly. Don't be overly defensive, however. Show that you want to learn and take the opportunity to see how you can improve. If you've had a memo marked up - see what the reviewer did - take out excess wording; break it into sections to have it read better; re-organize it? Take some time to assess how a more experienced person improved your work product.

Btw, HP is a bit nostalgic. I think we are coming up next month on the first anniversary of HP's Office blog. What shall we do to acknowledge this occasion?

the too casuals

2009-06-16T03:01:00.000-07:00

Hello all. Sorry I've been away for a bit. Some work things came up, of course, I am busy with our summer program, and I just didn't have anything on my mind to write about.

One thing that came to mind that I wanted to mention is over-familiarity. In today's more casual society, sometimes we tend to assume that a seemingly less hierarchical work environment or even one when, say, partners seem young and hip and not stiff, means that we can really let our hair down, speak as if we are speaking to our pals, and even joke in a way that we think is funny but might actually offend. Case in point: my friend, we will call her Partner Jennifer, had to leave for an appointment. She ran into junior associate Ellen. They briefly discussed something and then when Ellen saw Jennifer was leaving, Ellen made a comment about "oh I guess you don't have a lot of work to do since you get to leave early." Or something to that effect. Similar thing happened to another person I know. Jennifer - who is a youngish, approachable partner - was really annoyed. First, Ellen has no idea where Jennifer is going. Jennifer may be off to a client meeting. Second, Jennifer has 15 years of experience, including long nights, weekends, holiday work. Jennifer has busted her tush and is entitled to respect, particularly from junior attorneys. Even if Jennifer is going home - that really is not for Ellen to comment on. Ellen hasn't even proven herself yet.

Thus the long and short of it is to remember - and I know I've mentioned this before - these people are not your pals. They may seem approachable and laid back but there is still a hierarchy and you need to respect that. Be careful how casual your conversations may be. Watch the "digs," and watch the casual language - cursing, rough slang, etc. I've been in interviews where people throw out the F-bomb as if it is a "hello." This gets you marked way down - actually off totally - in my book. It is about judgment. These days, we are very sensitive to judgment red flags. Remember it is a buyer's market now. Show us your terrific work, your potential client handling skills. Keep the slang and snide comments for another day.

research project

2009-06-02T04:56:00.000-07:00

Good question there from the person who asked what to do if you've got a research assignment and, despite best efforts, come up with zilch. I thought F-3's response was right on. In fact, the first thing I was going to say was addressed by F-3: ask the firm's library staff. They are usually very knowledgeable and helpful. In fact, in my experience, befriending the library staff can really do wonders for you...they can track down all sorts of information, particularly hard to find treatises and other things like newly released laws and cases - they often have their own network of fellow librarians and (like a good concierge) can swap and trade things and call in their favors to get you what you need. So, again, the old adage here that you should treat the office staff well - be courteous, appreciative and pleasant -- will help you shine @ the workplace.

I've had mixed results with calling Lexis helpline. I don't find the representatives to be that substantively helpful. But, if you want to see if a particular search will wield any results or something like that, or formulating a search, then they can do that for you. My preference is to find someone "on the ground" who can help get what I need or direct me.

I liked F-3's suggestion that you should keep track of how you have researched. Oftentimes, partner X may ask: "did you look here?" If you've been in fifty different databases or made 20 phone calls, you may not remember once you are on the spot. Keep a notepad with you various searches and how you went about it. That will make you look prepared and organized and will inspire in partner X confidence in your abilities to proceed with the assignment - even if there seems to be no answer. Sometimes there is no answer.

Case in point, as a junior lawyer, I once spent hours researching something. Couldn't find it, despite my best efforts. I finally saw a contact name and called that person. When I reached him and explained what I was looking for, he said "you won't find it because we never issued it, and here's why." Light bulb in my head goes off. Ugh, why didn't I think to call this person earlier? Part of the problem is that (at least in my law school) we were trained to seek the answers on our own - not to reach out to others lest there be an honor code violation or something. All answers supposedly could be found by doing one's one research by oneself. But in the real world, that is not how it always works. Oftentimes, the fastest answer can be found by reaching out -- to other colleagues in the office, to staff at relevant governmental organizations, to court staff, etc. Now, I always say to follow up and confirm whatever they are saying with your own research. But, it is often a great place to start -- or a good mid-way point to confirm your own research or help you understand something in your research. Law is not a solitary enterprise, it can and should be collaborative - without revealing confidences of course.

So, follow F-3's advice - by all means, talk to the library staff. Detail for partner X the steps you have taken and ask for any further suggestions. Show that you are organized and that you have taken initiative. If you are unsure if certain "reaching out" contacts are allowed - on a no names basis that is, ask the assigning attorney. "I've done a, b, and c and wanted to confirm that no further changes have taken place. Would it be ok if I called Y on a no names basis to ask?"

Hope all is going well this summer.

Queries and Other

2009-05-21T04:13:00.000-07:00

Hi folks, HP catching up; sorry for the delay there but HP is a P and does have client commitments and travel, as well as an actual life outside the office.

Let's see, someone said they had accepted a job offer on the spot but then might have another perhaps more preferred job offer given in succeeding weeks and could they renege on their acceptance. I agree with the person who said, essentially, that they accepted the job and should stick to it. I don't know the market they are in, but you don't want to develop a bad reputation, particularly in a smaller, or medium sized market. If you accepted, you should stay with the folks who gave you a job. HP is very into loyalty and integrity. Next time, if possible, try to buy some time and follow up with the potential outstanding firm. Of course, now that you are going to firm 1, you need to do a fabulous job, be enthusiastic, etc. Even if this is not ultimately where you want to be, you want to be in a position that you've earned the respect of these colleagues and built your reputation, can get great references, etc. I spent my 1L summer in a different market from where I work now. It was a medium size firm, but not the sophistication of BIGLAW. Did I want to work there forever NOOOOO. But, I got great experience (accompanying partners to court, drafting summary judgment motions, even working on criminal cases), AND I made terrific contacts who later served as references. Especially when these experiences are hard to come by, you need to grab them and run with them. Remember, every opportunity is an opportunity to build on, even if it is not your end game.

I got a long email from a gentleman who wanted to share some advice on shirt "stays" for collars and other dressing advice; I will send that along next time. He did mention poplin suits for summer. I have to say I am not a fan and would rather stick with the basics. Now, maybe it depends on the market, but I just think they look goofy and kind of grandfatherly and have not seen people in firms I have practiced or worked with wearing them.

One more thing, the other day, I got a call from a lawyer I worked with many years back on a matter. She is now the lawyer on a different matter and we will be working together again. We exchanged needed information and will continue to work together as the weeks progress. The point I wanted to make here is that because we handled our last matter professionally, she knows that I will do my job while being someone who is good to work with. I know that she will be careful, yet firm, but still professional. We can each tell our clients that we have worked together before, which will give them confidence that the matter will go smoothly. This goes to my point of not being an a-hole (unless truly necessary) and being professional. Even in larger legal markets, what goes around comes around. You do need to deal with these people or their firms again and your reputation is always important.

good luck to those starting this week

2009-05-11T04:15:00.000-07:00

I got a few emails from people starting summer jobs this week. Good luck, all! Remember, you need to be on your game. Consider every day an interview. Don't be psycho on edge, deer in the headlights, but don't get too comfortable either. People engage in office gossip? Don't go there. Feel like complaining? Don't do it.

A female reader indicated she is going to work in a warm climate and wonders if wearing hose is necessary. Now, some may vary on this, but HP says to wear the hose, especially at the beginning. You can see as the summer develops if others go without, but I always go with the conservative side and that is to recommend wearing the hose. Most offices are cool in the summer anyway, so most of the day you will be just fine.

You will be getting your first assignments soon. With any assignment, make sure you understand a few key points:

when is it due? Note the date and make sure you give yourself a reminder and plenty of time to complete it AND time to carefully proof (I always print out my docs and sit and read the hard copy through).

what kind of product does the assigning person want? A memo? An email summarizing the key cases? Document summaries? Make sure you understand what they want delivered.

what resources can be used/are recommended? Lexis ok - some clients have restrictions on what can be utilized.

how should you bill? This can vary -- .25 or .10; some clients require task codes, or specific breakdown by descriptions -- for instance, instead of "draft memorandum; research regarding statute of limitations; conference with J. Smith" 1.75;they want "draft memorandum (1.0); research regarding statute of limitations (.5), conference with J. Smith (.25). A good question to assess this is "are there any special billing instructions for this client/project?

another question: what is the best way to contact you if I have questions? Or how do you prefer I contact you if I have questions?

***

Those are a quick few thoughts to get you going. I am sure you all will have some queries for me as the weeks progress. Remember, it is always good to clarify instructions in advance. AND, seriously, it is REALLY important to deliver the product ON TIME AND WELL PROOFED. I cannot stress this enough. Jobs have been lost over this. Manage expectations-- If you encounter roadblocks in your research, you should go to the assigning person, BEFORE the deadline.

Good luck !

addressing some questions

2009-05-06T05:47:00.000-07:00

Someone asked about whether it would be a good idea to keep a suit (or at least a blazer) in the office if you are in a business casual environment. Answer: yes. In fact, when I worked at a firm that decided to go business casual, it was a requirement that you keep a suit in the office. Let's say you are sitting around, doing your research this summer, and Partner Susan comes by and says she has a court hearing at 2pm, and she didn't think about this before, but would you like to come? You don't want to look at your outfit and think "uh oh." You want to be ready to go (which is why I like the more formal work attire anyway, it looks nice, and it is just ready for impromptu meetings and the like).

Exit options - this may merit a whole separate post, but I can start now. Well, as far as going in-house, there are a few practice areas that come to mind - general corporate/commercial - lots of companies have lawyers working on commercial contracts in -house (contracts where they buy services/products, contracts to sell their services/product etc.). At lot of in-house counsel are more "generalists," so the broader range of experience you can show, the better. Intellectual property is another. There's some great in house jobs for lawyers who can help protect a company's IP. Employment law - another good one -- there's employment lawyers all over the place and many companies have employment lawyers in-house to handle regular HR issues, policies, handbooks, employment contracts and non-competes, etc. Litigators - yes, companies do hire them - to handle day to day matters, and I even know of some very large companies who hire litigators to work on contracts -- because the litigators know the issues that may get the companies into trouble. Even though the law firms have been encouraging specializing, I do think that if you can get broader experience within your general area, that would be helpful for exit strategies.

Now, a separate word of advice -- and you know I have mentioned this one before -- networking, building relationships, staying in touch, building your reputation -- all are key here. Most in house jobs are not found through legal trade press listings or other advertisements. Most are filled through referrals. I frequently get emails from friends in house asking if I know someone for a new position - this is very common, because the in house people want a co-worker who is a known quantity (to someone). If they come highly recommend by, say, HP, my in house friend has that to go on and going into the interview the person has a leg up because friend can tell GC or if friend is GC, just consider, that this is someone who has been tested and trusted by HP. I have to say, I get these requests fairly often. Now, if you are someone I worked with and I thought you didn't seem that committed to the job, or did sloppy work, or were real difficult to work with, obviously I am not recommending you to my in house friend.

And I know I mentioned this before, but if you are the candidate and you see an opening, you may want to reach out to your network to ask if they know anyone in-house or even non-lawyer at the company who may be in a position to take your resume and get it in the right hands. Just the other day, I saw a friend on Facebook ask some of us on Facebook if we knew anyone at XYZ company. Doesn't hurt to ask. And make sure you express your appreciation if someone does take the extra step and get your resume in the door.

summer start

2009-04-27T17:27:00.000-07:00

Wow, quite the bit of debate in the comments on the last post, especially regarding attire. I can see that there's many questions. Will try to address some more attire related questions as they come up. HP actually bought a new suit today, having seen a good deal and getting tired of the usual stuff. There's lots of deals out there now, you might as well take advantage of them.

You might be wondering what you should show up on your first day with. Well, I think you could ask the recruiting coordinator in advance if there are specific things he/she wants you to bring (hey guys and gals, did you see I said he/she...yippee!!). Anyway, I would bring (1) yourself, of course, properly attired; (2) perhaps a briefcase or other appropriate business-like looking bag; (3) if you like, a portfolio with notepad (4) a couple pens (5) your cell phone -- you don't want to use firm phones for long distance and some calls that seem "local" but under firm's plan are not -- they will require a code and your cell is cheaper; (6) identification cards for work eligibility, pretty much all employers will require this -- check in advance, as I mentioned before and get your docs out; (7) usual stuff you would have of course such as wallet, etc. (I assume that is obvious but I throw it out anyway).

When you arrive, you will usually be greeted by the recruiting assistant, or office administator or your advisor - well, someone involved in the program. In BigLAW firms, you will usually have a formal orientation program with an agenda laid out. Make sure you do not set up outside lunch plans (with friends, etc) as the firm usually wants to send you out to lunch (often with your paired associate or other advisor). Take a look at the agenda so you can familiarize yourself with whom you are meeting. Keep your phone on silent or vibrate so it is not ringing away with calls from friends while you are in your meetings. Tell your friends and fam that you will be tied up most of the day and you will report back later.

You will be meeting lots of new people and it can be overwhelming. At least learn your assistant's name and make sure you greet them each day. They can be your best friend in the firm because they usually know more than a lot of the lawyers. And, usually firms will assign the very experienced assistants to the summers. If they make suggestions, listen. Say please, say thank you. If you are going to be in a meeting for a while or out of the office say, watching a deposition, let them know and let them know how to reach you. Remember, they can look out for you, but they will also let someone know if you are an a-hole. We listen - we don't believe everything, but if I hear about rudeness to staff, especially from more than one -- I do listen and it can be a factor.

Also, regarding your associate advisor, yes, he/she (see - I did it again, HP really getting PC!) can also be a great source of information and guidance. BUT, do not confuse advisor with your wife/husband/partner (PC Alert!) or best friend. They frequently sit in meetings with the hiring partner and may discuss things you've said - like you said "I hated working with Joe." Well, if Joe's group is only group hiring, that may be a problem.

How did I do? Did post properly address concerns of female and male readers? C'mon all, it's not ALL about gender. Sometimes it is just about the workplace, working hard, doing a great job, and showing everyone what a fabulous lawyer you are or can be. I'm just trying to get you off to a good start, the rest is up to you. :)

HP.

further follow up

2009-04-23T17:50:00.001-07:00

HP agrees with the commenter who said you should show up in a suit on your first day. Yes, make sure you wear a suit. If your shoes aren't new, go get them shined.

Did a commenter suggest he was thinking he was getting by with one suit? I hope I read that wrong. If so, I want to know what firm he is at this summer because I will send some Lysol. You certainly don't want to be known as the "smelly" summer associate. No, you cannot wear the same suit every day. In particular, what if something spills on it, and remember, it is summer and most places will be warm. You need time to get that suit cleaned periodically so you need other to wear and you don't want people to remember that you were the guy who only had one suit.

Further, let's talk about tailoring and cleaning for one moment. You know I mentioned tailoring before. Very important. Spend the money to get the fit right - hem, etc. Remember, you gotta spend some money to make some money. I usually do not notice suits unless they are particularly ill fitting or particularly sharp looking. In the middle is fine.

Cleaning - find a good dry cleaner nearby and get your shirts (men) laundered and pressed there (and for those women's tops that need cleaning send them in too). Remember, it is hot in most places, you may be nervous (sweating), you don't want to take off your jacket in the office and be wandering around with those lovely yellow armpit stains. Not professional. Men's shirts are very inexpensive to have done and most places have same day service if you bring them in early. Spend the money. Look, when I was a summer I really had no money in the bank. But I still took what I had (or perhaps I just charged some) and got myself some new suits, shirts, shoes. You want to feel comfortable, feel and look good, and give a professional (and not distracting appearance). I didn't want to spend too much time on this subject but since we had some questions, I thought I should address it.

Oh, and finally, once you get started, look around at the attorneys and see how they dress, they will usually be good guides as to what would be appropriate and how you may be able to use things you have. My friend Jennifer often wears skirts with nice twinsets in lieu of a suit. She says many of the women in her firm do this to mix things up and then it still looks professional, adding some nice jewelry etc. Not to be too "fashion show" here, but just a suggestion to keep your eyes open for how the office culture seems to indicate the dressing goes.

Hope that helps. BTW, I was out walking to a lunch meeting today and I saw a young boy (maybe 9?) going out to lunch for "take your child to work day." Dad was in a suit. Boy had a suit and tie on as well, and carried a briefcase. He did look very cute. Everyone smiled. But the point is, even the little boy dressed the part for going to the office. And he's not even being paid or seeking employment. If Johnny can do it, you can too.

Have a good Friday.

Answering some questions II

2009-04-22T16:48:00.000-07:00

I've received a few inquiries regarding whether firms will look closely at 2L grades in an effort to weed people out. I honestly think this is going to be mixed, but I think definitely a lesser factor than flaws in work product, and personality/"fit" with the firm. We ask for grades and I usually take a quick look to see if the grades are generally in the same place as when we interviewed the student at the beginning of their 2nd year. If they are, I move on. If a little lower, not a big deal, especially if the work performance is good. In fact, it has worked to someone's advantage where I could say, "hey, this person did a great job for us and their 2L grades have even gone up significantly."

Will firms need to weed more people out than usual? Of course they will, in those firms that significantly over hired. I think mediocre (or poor) 2L grades might be something to "cite" to if they wanted to no offer but honestly, I really see much more attention paid to situations where someone would criticize work product (poor proofing, missed a main case, writing jumbled and not coherent, missed the big issue), production (not on time, not what was asked, etc) or firm fit (perceived insult to staff member, too nervous/anxious, etc.). So, the long answer to your short question is that I don't see 2L grades being such a significant factor.

One of our female readers asked about how many suits one should have and if four is enough where there's a Friday business casual. I would say to start out, 4 should be ok, but if you can, pick up something once you have a little summer moolah to add - what if one of these suits gets a cup of coffee spilled on it -- it would be good to have a substitute. For men, I think 4 is enough. I've asked around on this one and one of my friends had a good add -- and that is women can also usually do some mixing and matching with accessories and tops and such so that it doesn't appear you are wearing the same 4 suits week after week.

On the subject of socializing, I thought F-3's ideas, as always, were good ones. F-3 is HP's teacher pet here. Actually, I do not know F-3, but F-3 does usually have insightful things to say. I will speak to this more perhaps next time. You do not have to be the "life of the party." The key is to be on time, pleasant, sociable, and not offend. I agree it is helpful to be able to comment on different (hopefully non-controversial) topics. I have a close friend from law school. She was once at a post-screening day recruiting cocktail thing with a bunch of lawyers from a big NY firm. A few others from her law school were at the table with these lawyers. Pleasant chit chat ensued. Obviously, all the law students wanted to make an impression. One by one, however, they had to catch planes, trains. My friend had some time. Instead of leaving with the others, she stayed. So it was her and about 4 male attorneys, including some senior partners. They talked about where friend is from. Friend is from a big sports city. They started talking about sports teams. Friend could talk about sports teams, told stories about going to the ball games in her youth, what players she liked, how a former player coached at her college etc. Friend was invited back and did in fact get a 2L offer from this firm. Of course, friend's grades helped a lot, but I have no doubt that it was friend's ability to carry on chit chat with strangers that helped friend make that impression.

OK, HP's dog needs to go a walkin so HP's gotta go.

tips of the day - getting ready for summer

2009-04-20T17:42:00.000-07:00

Ok, so let's say you are a 2L who has a summer associate job and will be starting next month (c'mon, I know there are a few of you out there). There's a couple of more minor seeming, but important points, I wanted to make.

First, try to take care of any necessary appointments (drs., etc) before you start. Your time at the firm is short - in many cases shorter than in past summers - it will not be viewed favorably if you ask for a day off or half the day to take care of routine things. Of course, if you had an emergency, that would be another thing.

Second (and I know I mentioned this early on in the blog), plan on staying at work all day. What I mean is that you shouldn't ask to leave early for "minor" things such as picking up a friend at the airport, getting to the grocery before your out of town friends arrive, etc. Same point as above, you are at the firm a short time, so put in regular days. You may say this sounds silly, but I and others have had people come to us for these exact reasons and want to leave work early.

Third, check in with the recruiting coordinator and go over start dates, end dates, and first day procedures so you have everything down and there is no confusion. You will likely need identification to establish work eligibility (e.g., social security card/driver's license). Make sure you get them in advance (for instance, going to safe deposit box for ssn card if you don't have it), and bring with you. You want to look organized and attentive.

Fourth, begin assembling your summer work wardrobe if you haven't already. The recruiting coordinator should be able to tell you what the summer dress code is. This is not the time to be creative - you want to look professional and blend into the surroundings. You want people to remember you for your work and professional attitude, not that crazy shirt you wore on casual Friday.

Fifth, if you are spending the summer in a city different from where you usually live, make sure you leave time to get there, get settled, and be ready to leave for work. You don't want to be dealing with "move in" details when you are starting your job.

Sixth, if you have been given an advance calendar of social events, put them on your calendar, so you can block out the times. Social events are important and yes, you are expected to show up. But, let's say your brother is getting married and there is a dinner at a partner's house. Tell the recruiting coordinator or other appropriate person right from the start that you have this conflict. If you develop some working relationship with the partner, it would be fine to mention to him/her that you are sorry you cannot attend but your brother is getting married. Do not blow off social events just because you may not be interesting in [insert activity].

Seventh, make sure you understand who is invited to these social events. If unclear, ask the recruiting coordinator. If guests are not invited, do not ask to bring a guest. Again, should be obvious, but you'd be surprised.

I was going to go to 10, but that will have to wait. I just wanted to get you started as we get closer to summer.

another interesting article

2009-04-18T06:59:00.000-07:00

a lot of statements similar to what HP has been saying over the past several months, but lessons worth repeating.

Hiring Partners: How to Get a Summer Offer

By Law Weekly Staff

In the midst of all the economic doom and gloom that has been floating around, current second-year students lucky enough to have obtained a summer associate position at a law firm are only thinking about one thing: How do I turn my summer job into a full-time offer?

Law School Career Services hosted a panel to respond to just such an inquiry. Titled “How to Get an Offer from Your Summer Program” and held last Tuesday in WB 152, the talk featured a panel of three hiring partners: John R. Jacob from the Washington, D.C. office of Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld, Jacqueline E. Stone from the Richmond office of McGuireWoods, and Douglas E. Hame from the Houston offices of Vinson & Elkins.

The down economy seemed to hang over the entire talk. Jacob mentioned that Akin Gump had cut its summer program in Washington from 35 law students to 12. All seemed to agree that events would be “less extravagant” this year than in previous years. Still, the major focus was on what law students could do to best control the situation. “In past programs the offer was yours to lose; well, this year you want to do as good a job as you can, and use your best judgment,” said Jacob.

The three partners seemed to agree that the most important thing for students to do was to turn in quality work product. “Firms want you to succeed as much as you want to succeed,” said Hame. But, in order to do that, summer associates have to make sure they are putting effort into both submitting the assignments on time and making them as good as they can possibly be—which means correct Blueblook-ing and formatting, as well as proofreading to make sure there are no typos.

They also stressed the importance of getting feedback. “People at the firm will want to give you constructive criticism and improve,” said Jacob. “Attorneys are constantly in a position to provide feedback to summer associates,” Stone added. “If you get less than stellar comments [in your evaluations], it’s important to learn from them.”

The panelists also addressed the issue of practice area: Specifically, should students be strategic in choosing what practice area they work in this summer, avoiding mergers and acquisitions work for, say, bankruptcy instead? Stone advised students to “pick something that you will enjoy working on.” Each of the partners encouraged students to treat any pro bono work with the same degree of respect and professionalism that they would work relating to one of the firm’s paying clients.

“In our view they are as important for summers as the other projects . . . and the same goes for associates and partners at the firm,” said Stone.

All three partners also stressed the importance of the firm’s social events. “I wouldn’t put the term mandatory on our events, but we really want the SAs to see non-office opportunities to interact with our attorneys as important,” Stone explained.

Hame explained what to do if you couldn’t make an event. “If you have a conflict, just tell them that you can’t attend,” he said. “No one expects you to give up your outside life.” That said, “you ought to try to participate in the events so you can see what lawyers [at the firm] are doing when they’re not working.”

Queries ranged from whether split summers were still okay (they are, but that person will have to make an extra effort to connect with attorneys at the firm) to whether firms would still have offers for people who were going to clerk after graduation (as of now, firms will still make every effort to accommodate clerks, as in the past).

One question of particular interest to the class of 2010 was whether second-year grades would play a role in getting a full-time offer. “They play a role,” Jacob answered. “Not more important than your work product . . . but yes [they are] a factor.” Hame nodded his head in agreement, saying “true, it’s a factor.”

http://www.lawweekly.org/?module=displaystory&story_id=2501&edition_id=119&format=html

follow up

2009-04-17T17:38:00.000-07:00

Thank you (well mostly thank you) for the comments. Aside from useless personal attacks, I do welcome comments. I did want to set a couple of things straight. I do not condone cursing or insulting associates. I would never treat someone that way. You've heard from some people who do know me and they can attest that while I may have had some hard bosses, I chose not to model my behavior after them. I believe people work best if they feel that they are appreciated, and like who they are working with, and I try to motivate through positive reinforcement. Always have. That is my management style.

That said, I am telling you what I see and what I hear from many of my peers. And that is that many in the more junior classes do complain too much and don't want to work hard, but want to make a lot of money. They dump projects back on the other attorneys because they have some other thing to do (social, etc), and they do not take ownership. In whatever workplace you work, and more so in the demanding Big Law world, you need to put in the time and make yourself present, to get the job done. Deadlines suddenly appear when you otherwise had plans. It sucks, but it happens. No one likes it. But you need to deal with it.

Do I give associates assignments on a Friday night because I want to see them suffer ? Of course not, and I would try to avoid doing that. But if a client crisis comes up and the most appropriate person for a particular task is the junior person, am I going to call you? Yes, I will call you on Friday night, I may email or call you on Saturday too. And you need to get it done. I will be doing my part as well. This is the world in which we work. If you don't like it, then you can go elsewhere - oh, you say, there's no jobs out there now. Well that's why you should take the assignment, do a great job, meet the deadline, ask if there's anything else you can do, and keep your head down. When the market picks up, maybe you can find something more to your liking. But, as I have said before, would you rather work hard or be on the street? I think most would rather work.

I'm hoping to start posting about getting ready for the summer in the next upcoming posts.

whiners

2009-04-15T17:32:00.001-07:00

HP has been mulling what to post next. I have to say, I am somewhat perplexed (disgusted?) at the comments to the last post. You folks ask for advice regarding the somewhat mysterious law firm world. I tell you the way it is from a partner's perspective, and then I get all sorts of whining "but it's not fair waaah wahhh waahhh" or "why should we stay late when no one is promising us a future" waaahh waasahh wahhhhh or "it was easier for you." wahhh wahh waaaaa.

I ask my friends if I am missing something here. They all agree with me. What I have been saying is to take ownership of projects, show responsibility, don't complain, be a reliable go to person that senior attorneys and clients will want to go to again. These are basic principles -- and in today's legal environment - the heavy hand of the layoff ax, the salary cuts, the shifting of attorneys from practice areas - this is the time to show what you are made of - to show you are a team player and can be trusted and relied upon. So, you might have to stay past dinner. STAY. So, you might need to skip a meal. Big deal. SUCK IT UP. Be happy you have a job and do not give anyone a reason to take the ax to you.

Let me add a couple of things:

1. It wasn't easier for me or my generation. I got out of school in difficult economic times. Many in my summer class did not get offers. I worked hard as a summer associate - staying late, working weekends when needed, even came in on a day we were given off because I was staffed on a a big project. As an associate, I stayed late, weekends, holidays too. I sacrificed. Yes, I survived layoffs. Why? Because I kept busy, had protectors (who I did solid work for and watched their backs so they kept mine). I had a young family and had to try to balance the needs of that family with the needs of the firm.

2. No one said this is fair. Big Law firms can be nasty places. Some of these people would turn on their mothers. That said, if you want to retain a job there, you need to accept that it is a totem pole and you are the low person on it. That is the deal. Eventually you may move up the pole but there will always be someone above you on the pole. It is not meant to be a fair game.

3. You might ask, well why then? Well, some of you folks were making $160,000 out of school. That is incredible money people. Do you think that is 9 to 5 money? NOOOO. That is money that essentially buys you. Accept it.

4. Why stay? I've had top notch training. I've worked on highly sophisticated matters. I am privileged to work with terrific clients and smart colleagues. I generally don't have to hound people to pay me. It is a job that requires a lot of sacrifice, but it is still a tremendous job. Do not take it for granted.

Interesting article

2009-04-09T05:56:00.000-07:00

http://corporette.com/2009/04/08/idiotproof-your-summer-further-etiquette-and-no-duh-tips-for-your-internship/

From Corporette's website. While HP is tied up on some other matters, I came across this article. It has some advice similar to what HP and guest posters have articulated, but I thought it worth sending around.

commitment

2009-04-03T04:46:00.000-07:00

Our readers have been asking for guidance about how to stand out or make a great impression during the summer program. Before I get to that, I did want to touch upon a basic principle that applies to summers, practicing attorneys, and in most workplaces actually. And that is commitment. I know I have touched upon this before in the category of "ownership." It is a constant, recurring and important theme. And will get you noticed, possibly in a bad way if you screw it up.

Recently, a friend of mine was complaining about an associate. My friend had a big filing and a junior associate was assisting him. The associate was generally doing an OK job for the tasks assigned. But on filing day when things were, of course, somewhat harried (and friend getting ready to head out on a business trip the next day), associate was suddenly gone for a while at an extended lunch while friend was trying to give instructions. Friend said to me, "what is the deal with this younger generation?" Going out to lunch on a filing day? Would you do that?" Friend was getting frustrated that friend, as senior lawyer and under a lot of pressure, couldn't get past the voice mail/email in an effort to find the lawyer. The lawyer hadn't indicated that he had a client lunch he couldn't get out of (in fact, I think I spotted friend with his friend at lunchtime). The lawyer hadn't even told senior lawyer that he would be out. He just was out. And my friend needed to discuss things with junior lawyer so the closing could get done. So, at the end of the day, my friend thinks of junior lawyer as someone who is not entirely dependable, not committed to the job, especially when there is a crisis. My lawyer friend even remarked that during this process, young lawyer seemed to be complaining that young lawyer had to stay late. In this economy! Complaining. NOOOOOOOO!

Anyway, this is a small example but I thought a good one. Your actions have consequences. You want to act in a way that people remember you as a solid, reliable, "go to" person. If my senior friend has choices, senior friend is probably going to give work to another associate who may be more committed. Thus, junior lawyer will have fewer hours and run the risk of layoff target.

Do I think you should starve for BigLAW? Of course not, but you can run out quickly and let the person you are working with know. Or bring something you can heat and eat quickly. There's many solutions. A big filing, closing, or project is not a time for you to be out gallivanting with your friends. Yes, you have to cancel plans sometimes. Treat this like the ER -- when the docs have car crash victims coming in -- they drop and focus - at least on TV. Do you see them stop for lunch? Eat a granola bar and move on. Remember, you want to impress that you are committed, and that you take ownership. OWN your projects - even if you are the junior one of the totem pole. Commit to see things through the end.

questions

2009-03-30T18:27:00.000-07:00

What do I think about taking a stipend offered to incoming first years or trying to start earlier? I say if no one is reaching out to you to say ("join us, we need you, etc"), I don't have a problem with your taking the stipend - assuming you can live on this. I think I saw one for like 75,000 to take a year doing, say public interest work or the like. If you are single, I think you can live on that for sure. I'd say take the stipend and find something interesting to do. Clerkship (even state court), public interest, governmental, etc. Something to add to your resume and perhaps better than showing up at firm where you may not have much to do (assuming you have that option to show up. And when else is someone going to pay you NOT to work for them?

Some people may receive calls or emails from department heads, firm management etc, indicating they are needed and wanted in their practice groups. In that case, of course show up.

If you are a summer this year and your firm has already delayed start dates, you ask what does that mean? Well, as I said before, firms are going to be VERY careful about giving offers. Firms did overhire (not all but some) because many engaged in standard recruiting and didn't quite determine how dire things were till the end of 08. As such the classes coming into summer are larger than if they were doing the hiring now. Will there be further push back of start dates? Well that is unclear - after all, this is all new - really, unprecedented. The formerly fall 09 people are now winter 2010. So, do I think firms will be ready to absorb fall 2010 people? If the economy stays slow, probably not. I think firms will be very tight with the offers this summer and are going to watch to see how things go.

Someone asked whether they should go ahead with on campus recruiting even after summer 09 and if they have an offer. I don't see anything so wrong about that. I think firms will understand that people may need to see what is out there. They are not loyal, so why should you be. Try to be discreet. Remember, you need to look out for yourself.

quick suggestions

2009-03-26T04:48:00.001-07:00

HP has been really busy, hence the quiet on the post. HP actually worked most of last weekend and thus the blog and social networking had to take a back seat. Sometimes it just happens and in this economy, when there's work, you got to jump on it.

I've been asked for some quick suggestions for job hunting. Some of these are geared toward more experienced folks but they sometimes do have entry level openings:

- acc.com (in house jobs - association of corporate counsel) (free search feature)

- lawjobs.com (free)

-- attorneyjobs.com (West service, subscription - but does appear to have different jobs than the other sites, and worth a couple of months subscription

-- craigslist under legal - no laughing -- smaller firms (who may be more apt to hire entry level - do post there; also temporary work.

-- industry and professional groups often have their own sites -- such as speciality-specific bars and groups like women's bar associations.

-- usajobs.gov (fed jobs - safest place these days).

Obviously, if you know someone who may know someone at a place can get your resume into the right hands as opposed to a large email box, that is helpful. Ask around. Do not be shy. I have a laid off friend who saw a job, I believe on acc.com, and asked me if I knew anyone at this company. I did not, but asked my partner, who does have a contact there. He sent the resume on with a note. Now, friend may or may not get the interview but at least it is a better shot than just a regular submission.

If you have suggestions you are willing to share, please feel free to post them in the comments.

No Offers?

2009-03-16T17:34:00.001-07:00

Someone asked whether I truly believe there will be a lot of no offers in the 2009 summer class (i.e. fall 2010 starts), even at the top firms. I believe there will be a lot of no offers, yes even at top firms. Perhaps less at the top 1-10; my view is that they will continue to hire who they perceive to be the very best students. Overall, though, most firms are going to be very carefully analyzing the performance of each summer associate. In the past several years, pretty much the story has been as long as you didn't mess up significantly or piss off a big P, you would get an offer. In other words, it was kind of hard not to get an offer. But, we are moving back to when I was a summer associate -- in those days, most of my class in my office did not get offers -- I am not sure what the deal was, I think the firm decided later they didn't need as many entering associates.

Here's the issue. Most of the firms went out and did OCI as usual in fall 2008. Sure we were more in the buyer's seat and had perhaps slightly smaller classes. But most of the firms did not perceive how dire things would get. Remember, mostly stealth layoffs at this time. So, late fall came, offers out, offers accepted. Around late December/Jan, the sky started to fall. Firms going under, mass layoffs, delayed start dates, firms start to think why should we even have a summer program? Some cut the program. Now we have these offers out for the summer and quite frankly the firms wish they could take them back. Most don't even need all the people they have on the books, and they have the entering - formerly fall 2009 now winter 2010 to deal with. The long and short of it is that most firms have overhired for summer 2009 and will really analyze the hires carefully.

This means that you will need to be stellar, and yes, I will go over that (some I have already covered). I just don't want to do too early because then people will be asking again in May. The days of being assured that you will get an offer are over. You are now fighting for an offer. BE ON YOUR GAME.

Before I do start posting about the summer, please do ahead and review the posts from last summer when I started. There I was pointing out some basic dos and don'ts. Of course, that is basic behavior. Your substantive job performance and interactions must be impeccable.

And you've got to try to get work from areas that are perceived to have needs going forward.

So in the meantime, a couple things: keeps Google searches on your firm so you can see what is going on (comings, goings, big new clients, cases etc -- Google alert good for this). This may help target "busy" groups. Keep all your interactions with the HPs and recruiting staff on a professional, courteous (non-psycho) manner. We know you are nervous, try not to relay the deer in the complete headlights approach. Respond promptly and succinctly to communications. Whenever I send Andrew a message about the summer and he gets back to me, without any angst, 1,2,3 answers the question or whatever, I think, this guy is good, no pain in the neck/entitled soul, doesn't need coddling, seems like a team player, easy to deal with. Just my 2 cents.

Hang in there.

what about work/life balance/flex-time/diversity initiatives etc

2009-03-12T17:36:00.000-07:00

Just before the BigLaw bubble burst (and let me just say I can barely read Above the Law because it is getting so depressing) many firms were aiming at retention (gee, there's a word from the golden era) and initiating or expanding policies such as diversity initiatives, flex-time/part time, expanded parental leave etc. This was in an era where associates were viewed as assets firms wanted to keep and, in some instances, pressures from clients to hire and retain women and diverse professionals. Some firms just seem to have it right that it would be a shame to lose good people simply for being inflexible, and if someone wanted say a 80 percent schedule for 80 percent pay, not such a huge deal (they still have a huge mark - up, despite the overhead). But that was then. what about today?

Well, I think in today's reality, the policies on the books will stay. But I would think carefully before I used them. I do think face time will count in this economy. You can still bill an 8 hour day from home if the work is there, but if the chopping block comes, they may think about who is a key player, and if they don't see you that often, that may hurt you. That said, what is key?

Key is being known as essential (or close to essential) to the team. Maybe you cover a million different sub-areas such that if they let Johnny go, they know you could pick up slack. Maybe you have developed a great relationship with important client X, who would miss you if they heard you got canned. Maybe there is a hot new area - whatever that is - and you are becoming well-versed in it. These things can help you. Many of them do require face time in the office (yes I realize you can talk to clients from home, I do it all the time).

The bottom line is that you want to appear committed to your job, the firm, and your career. If you want a reduced schedule, I say go for it, but go over and above to be responsive. Don't ever let them have an opportunity to say you were not responsive. Your response may be to ask if something is immediate -- it isn't always. But at least you appear on the ball. Don't give them ammunition. Be a professional. Be on the ball.

Tough times will cause firms to - if not formally pull back these benefits -- then not really encourage their use. Be true to yourself but recognize that there are risks in not always being around, especially at the junior level.

Tips?

2009-03-07T11:20:00.000-08:00

If you've got something you want to share with HP/ issues you are seeing out there/or even crappy ways you were treated, you can feel free to drop me a note at: hiringpartneroffice@gmail.com

no loyalty in biglaw

2009-03-07T10:58:00.000-08:00

HP has a friend who has been let go as part of the layoffs we are seeing at the AM Law firms. Friend was saying that she was surprised that her former mentor, who was now in a management position hadn't done more to help/protect her and wasn't doing much, if anything, to help her find a new job. Friend at least hoped that Partner will give a solid reference once friend independently finds a new job. It surprised friend that Partner just taking care of Partner. Of course friend isn't naive, just friend thought for all the years of work and sacrifice for Partner, that Partner would look out for friend. And that is not the case.

This, blog friends, is a hard but necessary lesson. I know I have said this before but remember, law firm management and partners and other senior (and junior attys, for the most part), are NOT YOUR FRIENDS. When push comes to shove, they watch their own asses, not yours. I once worked for a partner, we will call him Larry. He could be charming, and he would even host summer events at his home, take summers out bowling, etc. To the casual observer, Larry was a cool guy. But was Larry really cool? NOOOO. Larry would be the first to blame another (usually junior attorney) for any mistakes/issues caused by Larry. Larry would bad mouth people behind their backs. And sure enough when times were slow, Larry would blame others and would be the first to cast off other attorneys to lay off world.

We think that based upon, in some cases, years of dedication and hard work, loyalty should follow. Heck, as a personal principle, I believe that it should I am loyal to those people who are part of my team or in my network. But overall, in firms, this is not the case. Do not look for emotional validation from your partners. Do not expect that they will take care of you in "good times and bad." Remember, during the bad times, their focus is on bringing home the bacon. Many of them have overextended themselves and have huge expenses. Many of them are single income families where they are the breadwinner. It is once again survival of the fittest, and they will jettison you in order to stay on the cruise boat. It is just reality. I am sorry it is depressing, gang, but just giving you the facts.

Now, what can my friend do? She is doing the right thing, not burning his bridges with Partner and hopefully getting out of him what she needs, a great reference. Friend may even stay in touch with Partner down the line, and if Partner is smart he will do the same and you never know where Friend will end up. But Friend's lesson is a good lesson for us all -- one I wish I knew long ago when I became disappointed that someone I worked with didn't seem to advocate for me. You are your own advocate - don't depend on others, especially BigLaw partners during 2009. Loyalty in Big Law is awfully hard to come by.

free work

2009-02-28T03:03:00.000-08:00

a top student at a top school asked if he or she should offer to work at a large (it was large, right?) firm for free. Even in these times, I don't think I like this concept. It makes you look desperate (which I know many are, anyway). I can understand interning (for free) at a non-profit or governmental agency, but at a big law firm, just has a stigma to me (that's the guy who worked for XYZ for nothing). I haven't heard of firms doing this. I was offered this situation by a law student last year. While we thought it different, we also thought it said something about him, and not in a good way. Now, other may disagree with me, but I just don't see prestigious law firms jumping on this concept.

As a side note, I worked for a smaller firm as a 1L summer in a medium sized city for an hourly wage. I don't recall what it is but they didn't even want us to work past 5 because they only wanted us working/paid 9 to 5. Maybe it was like 15 dollars an hour (maybe less!), but at least I was paid and I got some great experience - drafting summary judgement motions and memoranda, getting to accompany the lawyers to court, observing depositions, etc., and I made some good contacts who served as references the next summer. I came out in a bad legal market as well, so I understand the difficulties. But, I would rather see you with a paying job of some type (or interning for free at at place where that is more common) than groveling at BIGLAW. Happy to hear any different views, but as I said, I haven't heard firms jumping on this "free summer associate" train. It may be because it costs to run a summer program anyway, even without the fancy events.

Double posting today, I guess I had a lot to say.

BTW, I'd be curious to hear any stories about 3L offers rescinded - hence the poll. Our incoming associates are still expected to join but I wonder about what you are hearing (something different from abovethelaw.com, of course, since I read that).

And to my Latham friends: good luck, friends.

how long

2009-02-25T06:40:00.000-08:00

Someone asked how long this legal downturn is likely to last. There's a reason we are lawyers and not investment bankers -- we really don't have a lot of foresight when it comes to the market -- but, based what I am hearing in the recruiting world, I think recruiting at the new hire and lateral stages will take longer to recover than the pick up in legal work. This is because firms are finally being more conservative when it comes to new hires, salaries, bonuses, etc. In my view, this is long overdue as too much hiring occurred even while economy was slowing, and many firms just tried to match each other on the crazed bonuses and salaries. I bet if you ask many now, they would have taken less money for more job security.

in any event, firms are cracking down on hiring. Many firms will not have a 2009 summer class or will significantly reduce the class and the program. I predict there will be many "no offers" even for decent performers because firms will be afraid about bringing new hires on. Fall 2009 recruiting will be a slow season. We will return to a time when only the stars are on relatively easy street. If you are beyond, say, 25% in your class at a top 11-33 law school, it is going to be difficult. This means that 2010 summer classes will be small. I really don't see a pickup until after 2011. Sorry for any depressing news here, but firms are definitely pulling back on new hires especially.

My friend, a headhunter, reports that associate lateral hiring is basically flat. There are some specialists getting hired, but he has more or less moved his whole practice to lateral partners. Partners with business are still able to move and he is moving plenty of them.

networking again

2009-02-25T06:33:00.000-08:00

Many of us have noticed that we've started hearing from former colleagues, long lost friends, etc. lately, just as the layoffs have hit. And, yes, these people have been laid off, let go, whatever you want to call it. HP feels for these folks, but takes this opportunity to return to an earlier point. Don't wait till something bad happens to network/connect. This should be something you do all along. People will be more apt to help you if they don't just hear from you when you are on the street. Remember, while you need to bill bill bill time (and this is key right now as firms look for layoff targets -- typically those who are "underutilized), you also need to stay in touch with your broader network ALL ALONG.

And if you've got a friend on the street and see something that might be right for them, go ahead and forward to them -- they will remember this. And maybe they will go in house and bring you in later, or hire you as an outside counsel down the road, or find out about something for you within their new network.

Networking is not as hard as it seems, particularly in the day of email, Facebook, Linkedin, etc. Find a way of networking that works for YOU. Say, you have a young family and don't want to be out for drinks after work because you have to help with homework, etc. Then, schedule some quick sandwich/salad lunches during the week when you are already in the office and away from home. Or, take a 3pm coffee break and meet someone at a local Starbucks. Networking and staying in touch with friends, former colleagues, etc., is always a good idea, and an especially good idea during a downtime in the legal market/economy.

Why Ben picked over Ellen

2009-02-21T04:55:00.000-08:00

Some of you may be witnessing the layoffs/carnage at firms and wondering why one attorney may "survive" a layoff when another doesn't. Firms consider various factors. Usually, firm management, upon deciding that layoffs need to happen, will ask dept. heads to consider which attorneys may not be needed in the long term. In turn, practice or dept. heads will look at seniority (e.g., is this someone who has been with us a while but unlikely to make partner/sustain a practice), hours (of course!), someone who shows poor hours the last couple of quarters (or even quarter) is a target, overall contributions to the firm, etc. If someone has a protector in a humongous rainmaker, that can also make a difference. Few people can consider themselves protected in this environment, but a few lucky stars with rainmaker protectors can.

So, what to do. Well, at this point, if you don't have a huge mentor/protector, it will be hard to quickly establish one before the layoff hammer comes down. My advice -- which I realize differs a bit from my past advice on participating in firm administrative functions -- is to keep your head down and bill, bill, bill. Hopefully you are in a group that still has work. Take on projects. If people have been let go, step up to the plate in covering their work (assuming they had some). I once had a former colleague who was a junior attorney when some lawyers were let go in her office. She was told to take over a file from one of the terminated attorneys. She got the file and managed that project for the next several years. It enabled her to work with a different client, a different partner, and expand her knowledge into a new area of law. The partner who oversaw her respected that she jumped right into the project with a positive attitude and did a diligent job.

So, as opportunities close for others, they open for you, the survivor. I realize this is somewhat Darwinistic but if you want to hold on - whether to ride out the storm and have a long term law firm career, or hold on for a little bit until you can get the hell out of dodge and move into something else, you are going to hard to work out, take work where you can get it, and be a team player. The age of entitlement is over my friends. It is time to work, work, work and bill like there is no tomorrow.

BigLaw Depression

2009-02-18T16:55:00.000-08:00

Hello folks. I've been quiet because I really wasn't sure what I wanted to write about (not inspired). Then, Black Thursday came around with all sorts of layoffs and bad news and even HP's firm let some people go. I didn't know how I wanted to address any of this..honestly, I still don't but figured you deserve a post.

What do I see? Well, no associate is safe. No summer associate is safe. I am sorry this is so depressing, just reporting reality. Partners are not immune either, especially non-equity partners. We will continue to see layoffs, salary freezes, cuts etc.

Now, if you are a summer associate to be and you see your firm on abovethelaw.com re: layoffs, should you get in touch? You can, and most HPs and staff expect it, but you might want to wait a few days to see if they touch base with you. There is likely to be a message that is going to be relayed. Plus, when the layoffs, etc., first hit, there is a lot going on at the firm -- saying goodbye to colleagues, transitioning matters, dealing with other uncertainties and stress. In other words, it will just add to the overall stress so you might want to wait.

What if they mention about pushing start dates for new associates and you are an incoming (formerly fall) associate? Should you get in touch. Again, they will be contacting you, but if you want, you can reach out to your contact at firm. As indicated above, you may want to wait a few days, and speak calmly. Everyone is concerned and these things are not easy. Have your questions prepared (e.g., will there be an extra stipend)?

The bottom line here, gang, is uncertainty. Do firms know whether they can definitely start anyone at the delayed start date or even have a summer program? Whatever a firm's plans are today may change in the months ahead. We are dealing with unprecedented times. Firms aren't out to "get" you or purposely screw you over. Management is basically trying to figure out things as things progress. Projecting as well as they can, and being conservative to protect the overall firm and its employees.

I wish things were more cheerful for me to report. I would encourage non-law firm gigs -- at least for the time being. And as GP said before, if you get extra time on your hands from start date delays, rescinded offers, etc., go ahead and try to find something law related.

And in all regards, keep networking, and don't burn any bridges.

Wow, have things changed since HP started blog back in the summer. Hang in there.

Taking the Road Less Traveled - Another Guest Poster -- Different Track Guy

2009-02-07T18:22:00.000-08:00

I want to thank HP for letting me hijack this very instructive blog to present a different perspective on employment. I did not enter the big firm route for my career path. When I graduated from a Top 25 law school and subsequently passed the bar exam, I was facing an economy in deep recession where a major law firm in the biggest city proximate to my home collapsed and thereby put 200+ experienced attorneys on the street. Having grades in the top 1/3 of my class weren't enough to garner employment at the big firms in said big city, and I did not want to seek another market. I sought out small- and medium-size firms, but the salary offers were so low on pay and benefits that I could not accept a couple of offers that were made to me. So began a different track:

Job 1 - Solo Practice: In an act of extreme arrogance and potentially deep mental illness, I set out to establish a solo practice. I had to make a decision as to where to locate. I chose an office where a sitting state representative and the incumbent counsel for the city were located. I realized the importance that these connections may provide in both my current, new lawyer status and the value of these connections later in my career development. Elected officials and municipal officers are great sources for client referrals and eventual job recommendations as their connections run deep. Be selective where and, more importantly, with whom you locate.

I had to furnish my office. I bought a basic PC (today a laptop would make most sense), printer, and bought my desk, chairs and bookcase from an automobile dealership that was closing due to the then sour economy. The furniture was from the dealership president's office and looked very professional with my diplomas professionally framed in the background. Do not skimp on office decor and on framing. Much like HP discussing clothing, I need to state the obvious in that how your office looks (in a situation where you actually meet people in your office versus conference rooms at large firms) makes a lasting impression on new clients.

I had to decide the areas of law in which to practice. The counsel for the city connection proved fruitful immediately as he offered me work as a per diem assistant to him and he convinced the Mayor to provide me with a steady stream of income performing municipal tax matters for the City. Immediately, I could meet all of my overhead! My grandparents who were then living provided the inspiration for my other practice area. They were both senior citizens living in an elderly building housing hundreds of seniors. I immediately decided to learn everything about elder law. Next, after learning this area after many cram sessions and CLE classes, I found myself speaking to the elderly building's association on the topic and a significant practice area was opened to me. So be open to the business that your colleagues offer to you, be aware of your own community's demographic opportunities, and be willing to leverage your own family if it will help you build your practice.

So for the next few years, I was doing ok. I had steady municipal work and I was building my elder law practice. I was not getting wealthy, but I could afford to buy a house on my own which wasn't that bad for a single, 27 year old guy at the time.

Job 2 - Agency Counsel: One day, I was reading the primary state lawyers' newspaper and saw an ad where a state agency was seeking an attorney with knowledge of estate planning and elder law concepts to join its legal department. The pay grade was strong for public service, and I immediately applied. I was torn as to whether to leverage my relationship with the State Representative and made the decision that I would only mention him if I got to the stage where a list of references was required. I interviewed and was offered a second interview a week later where I was told to bring with me the names of two references. I brought the names of the counsel for the city and the State Representative. I believe, to this day, that my expertise in the desired area of law gave me an edge over any other applicant, but I am not oblivious to the fact that providing the State Representative as a reference surely didn't hurt. And, it should go without saying, even if you're happy in what you're doing, keep an eye on the want ads. You never know when a great opportunity may be there for you.

For the next six years I practiced law for that state agency and found the road to be predictable with steady salary increases, but it did provide not a whole lot of intellectual challenge or promotional opportunity. My work was primarily centered on estate work with more than a dabbling of fraud issues. And to add to the fun, I was able to maintain my solo practice of law after hours so long as my practice areas did not conflict with my state job and I have done so to this day.

Job 3 - Manager at the Agency: After six years as agency counsel, my internal agency client offered me a managerial position in its department where I would have the opportunity to manage about 20 staff and begin to impact agency policy. I now had to make the decision of whether to continue to be a full-time lawyer or advance my career in public service taking an alternative career path. For me, it was an easy choice because I knew that the legal career path in public service would require years for me to advance as I would have to wait out a few baby boomers (and turnover was negligible in this agency). I took the managerial job and served in that capacity for a few years.

Job 4 - Jumping Ship to Another Agency: Three years ago, I saw an ad on the state jobs web site where a different state agency was seeking a higher level manager with fraud and legal experience. I applied, interviewed, and was offered the job in short order without a second interview being required. I served in that capacity for two years, and I was considered an effective change agent by the agency's senior management. Now, after only three years at the agency, I am leading an entirely new department, and I am serving as a member of the agency's most senior staff. My salary has increased approximately 30% in the past three years which is no small achievement in this economy, but it was reflective of merit-based pay increases and a significant promotion.

So where does this admittedly long story lead you? I'm hoping that it will make you recall Frost's great poem where he mentions that famous road that diverged in the wood. HP's blog does a wonderful job of preparing you for the road most traveled. But there is another, less traveled road where, if you believe in yourself, you can establish and maintain a solo practice of law that can, at minimum, meet your expenses while having an opportunity to buy a home and begin to live the traditional American dream. And even more importantly, you can direct your career toward public service and potentially inform policy decisions for a state agency impacting tens of thousands of lives.

I know that this biographical post was very long. Thank you for indulging me in telling my story. I could offer many more anecdotes, tips, and advice to anyone interesting in solo practice or public service and will be glad to do so at HP's request. Good luck to all of you in your careers. The law is a noble profession where you can use your education for so much good. Be sure to find a way to do so.

undergrad and other

2009-02-07T04:34:00.000-08:00

Thanks GP for your insights. I've got another guest for you folks. This person, we will call him (yes, it is a him), DT (different track) guy, is going to discuss the benefits of the non-traditional path (e.g., government/public service). Especially in this economy, we can't all assume we can sit our tushies down in Big Law for several years. DT is going to talk about how one goes about getting into this track and what he has liked about the track. Now, DT is a long-time friend and a good person (not to mention holds impressive TV trivia knowledge), so please welcome him when he joins us and be nice! Remember, this is all voluntary sharing for your benefit, and our frustrated writers.

Someone asked about undergrad institutions and whether a perceived "weak" one hurts your changes in BigLaw. I will say that there are some snobs in BigLaw, and if they don't know your undergrad or think it isn't up to snuff, they may turn up their noses. For some people you can't change that. But, for others, the key is how well you did in undergrad. I've seen people who were the top of their class at "abc no name college" and then got into a top or very good law school and did just fine. This is especially true if you are in the same region as the college and people know it better. But the law school grades will be key, followed by how well in undergrad. I personally like to see a solid undergrad and someone who did a good job there. But I recognize that people attend different schools for different reasons (finances, need to near family etc.). If you went someplace because they gave you a four year scholarship - put that on your resume -- it helps us understand.

Again, the law school grades are key and no one is guaranteed anything these days. Firms that are hiring can be extremely selective. We may be looking for more of a practice group fit. I think I earlier mentioned that I have hired someone from a not-well-known undergrad because of specific professional and work experience. Law school ok, but not great. This person got the job because of the experience and fit with the practice area.

So, bottom line is obviously you can't change the undergrad at this point. Hopefully you did well. You've gotta get the law school grades and get some experience.

I also want to touch on some of the business development side of things that GP discussed and will do that in a later post.

GP returns: bus development tips

2009-02-04T14:23:00.000-08:00

Building a Book -A few of you have asked for guidance on business development. GP believes that unless you are a fifth or sixth year associate, you should not be worrying about generating business. Focus on your work, focus on your realtionships with your colleagues, participate in firm events, especially training and CLE type events and try to get some unique experience under your belt.

I have been around long enough to know that some of you will ignore my advice, so for those of you still reading, here are a few thoughts. First, in my experience the best way of building business relationships in a firm is perhaps the most obvious - work with someone who already has a significant client relationship. Not just any client though, a client that you believe can lead to further (litigation, corporate, real estate) matters in your lifetime. This is not necessarily confined to Fortune 100 companies, many firms have emerging companies as clients and often times such clients can become a source of significant firm revenue. If you do not know who your office's or firm's largest clients are, you have work to do! Most firms provide their client lists to both attorneys and staff, study it and target clients of interest to you and target the partners doing work for those clients. (Networking with colleagues at other firms or speaking and writing engagements can lead to new opportunities too, but in my experience the returns on such investments are low. You are at a firm with an active client base, build from that base). Second, once you have identified such a client, try to find the right moment to spend some personal time (coffee during a deposition break, lunch after a real estate or corporate closing) with a client contact - not necessarily the CEO or GC, but someone like you who is likely to be promoted to a position of responsibility. (As HP would say, no stalking!) It may take time and the right instincts to find the right moment to schedule such an event, just be patient. Relationships take years to develop. Recognize that you have a tremendous opportunity every time you interact with a client representative or when your work product gets in front of a client representative.Third, for those of you who do not have a partner or mentor providing interactive opportunities to clients, I again suggest patience. However, if it becomes clear to you that you will not be provided opportunities to interact with clients you either have identified the wrong client or you need to work for a different mentor and partner. If that is the case, get out of the relationship while you can, use whatever available firm resources (e.g. Associate Relations Partner) to get work from a partner who you can grow with. (And before you make that request, do some homework - find out who has the client relationships you can help build, determine whether that partner's existing team of helpers has room for you and determine whether working for that partner will be tolerable!) Don't be intimidated by the economy and associate lay offs - time spent with a partner who doesn't provide you opportunties to meet clients (and impress clients), is wasted time!

Finally, and I risk the wrath of the anonymous posters who will make fun of me for this piece of advice, none of the above pieces of advice will replace quality work and work completed on time. Clients, and partners of course, above all want excellent work and want results. Make sure your name is equated with quality and excellence. If you can make that happen, I promise you will have the client's attention and you will be on your way - again, assuming you have identified the right client and have taken advantage of the right opportunties to interact with that client - to building a valuable client relationship.Okay, posters, I await your comments and questions! Fire away.

tip of the day - standing out

2009-01-30T02:55:00.000-08:00

A commenter asked about how young lawyers can "stand out" these days when it is so important to show your worth to the firm. My observations here apply in BigLaw, smaller offices, government jobs, etc.

What I have found over the years is that younger lawyers do not take OWNERSHIP of a matter. I don't know whether they assume the partner/senior attorney will eventually oversee and fix everything, or they have been happy collecting 160,000 starting salaries in some places and feel they can clock in and clock out as long as they bill the hours, etc., but I notice a definitely loss of ownership of matters.

What this means is that when there is a project: a brief, a corporate agreement, etc., you assume responsibility from beginning to end. And even at the end, you may further assume responsibility to remind clients/other attorneys of upcoming deadlines, or if you see a development in the trade press, etc., to bring it to someone's attention. This subject is a bit hard to articulate, so let me try to elaborate.

When I was brought into a project, I assumed that I was there from start to finish. I assumed that I was a critical team member. Let's say it was legal research, and drafting a memorandum. I would obviously, promptly conduct the research. If the research indicated there were new developments (such as pending legislation or court cases), I would track those down, not just tell someone they were out there. I would work with Lexis staff, our librarian, etc. to find the information. I would draft the memorandum. I would deliver it promptly. If there was follow-up, I would take care of that promptly as well. Sounds easy, right?

Well, let's say that another project comes up in the middle of first project. Unless partner two has spoken to partner one about interfering with first project, it is still my job to finish project one. Even if I have to stay late, work weekends, etc. And of course, I have to keep moving on project two. This may mean I have so cancel some social or other engagements.

Let's say I am supposed to head out of town to visit family. Do I just tell these people I am heading out and dump my half-completed research? NOOOOOO. This will make you stand out in a bad way. Either complete the work before you go (don't tell me there's no time, I've completed many assignments in the middle of the night from my home computer), or take the work and a laptop and get it done in a timely fashion while you are gone. Everyone has outside commitments. This doesn't mean you can leave unfinished work. Take ownership of any project just like it is your solo project -- show that you are dedicated and that you take your work seriously, and that people can always depend on you.

Once I have sent out my memo, do I just go into oblivion? NOOOOOO. Especially if you are out of the office, make sure the other attorneys have everything they would need: your memo, copies of your cases, legislation, etc., and of course, all your contact information. Tell them you are available for any questions (they probably won't call but this makes you look responsible and interested). Check your messages and return calls and emails if they do have questions. If there was some unfinished business, like you need to speak with some third party, take their contact information, follow up, and report back. People will notice that you handled this responsibly.

One of the things I hear from attorneys is that the younger attorneys don't seem to "care" about matters. After your particular task is done, don't just check out and move on. This isn't McDonald's where you just ring up the special combo no. 1 and move on to the next drive through customer. Check in with the assigning attorney to see if they need anything else/ask how the matter is going (maybe they will even take you along to some of the follow-up, because you seem interested and invested!). This demonstrates that you are a "team" member, and remember, your goal is to stay on the team.

Happy Friday, everyone.

Attire Part II

2009-01-29T03:03:00.000-08:00

I'd like to digress from our rather substantive and hopefully helpful discussion (and let's hear it for GP, who really tried to work it -- and believe me, GP is busy on so many fronts). Anyway, someone asked about clothing and whether it is necessary to wear expensive suits and other attire or whether some lesser known brands would make one look very un-BigLaw.

My take on all this, whether man or woman (and GP, feel free to jump in) is that it is not the label, per se, but the overall quality of the look. Most importantly, FIT. You could have the most expensive Saks suit on, but if it is tight, too long, etc., that will detract from your overall presentation, and get you remembered in a bad way. For instance, there is a guy at my old firm and whenever I refer to him (partially because I can't remember his name), I always say "the guy who worked for Joe whose pants were too tight").

When shopping, look for quality. Something that will last. You can find bargains, especially these days, with sales, etc., but make sure it is something that you can actually wear. The easiest would be a classic navy suit. Make sure it fits your CURRENT body (not your body after you start going to the gym every morning at 5am and finish boot camp). Spend money on tailoring - very important. I don't know why people skimp here. Get the pants and the sleeves properly tailored. Bring the shoes you normally would wear with the suit or outfit to the tailor.

I worked with a partner when I was a first year associate. He was reportedly independently wealthy and also brilliant. However, the main thing I noticed about him was that his suits were just old looking and too tight. I thought at the time "we all gain and lose weight, sometimes we just need to accept what doesn't fit and put it away...or give it away. Sometimes we just need to buy new suits." [or other business attire].

A related topic here is to make sure that the clothing sits right on the body. Now, this tends to be more of a woman issue, but the gap in the blouse in the middle of the chest, the shirt that won't stay tucked in, etc., also detract from your look. "Too sexy" clothing further cuts down on the professionalism. You don't want your nickname at the firm to be "the half naked one." Similarly, undergarments are just that...things to be worn UNDER clothes - you don't want thongs showing in the AMLAW -- yes, we have seen this.

Overall, it is not so much the price but the overall quality and fit of the clothing. You want to project a professional appearance. You want to be remembered for your stellar work, your work ethic, your collegiality. You don't want to be remembered for your tight suit pants.

No Job - now what

2009-01-26T17:55:00.000-08:00

Well, GP wasn't a huge hit the first time out. Remember, GP's viewpoint is just another viewpoint. You and I may not agree (for instance, I use Lexis all the time and don't mind others using it), but keep in mind that GP is a partner at a top firm and these are GP's views. Right or wrong, some people think this way. That is why it is good to hear different viewpoints so you will know that each person you report to or may reach out to will have a different approach. GP wanted to provide some further guidance, so GP has taken another stab, below. Hopefully it will cut and paste cleanly. Not to worry, HP just got very busy - but HP will be posting own stuff as well.

Here's GP's post:

With all the associate lay offs, what is the upcoming law graduate or current law clerk with no law firm employment prospects to do?

Let's first caveat this by say, GP is assuming a lawyer in this position wants to get into a law firm and not be educated on the alternative uses of a JD or the joys of working in a law school alumni office. Thus, the issue here is what is your best springboard to that prestigious law firm job?

First, it does not make sense to wait for that interview you were promised or a response to that letter you sent out. You have got to get a job, any job, out of law school! I have seen smart associates from good law schools think they can delay things until after they take the bar. Wrong. A three or four (or more) month gap from law school graduation to passing the bar will raise questions. "Studying for the bar" won't cut it as a reply to "what have you been doing since you graduated from law school?" [HP editorial note - in current economy, hiring people won't be shocked, but you should show you are doing something in furtherance of career, even an internship].

Second, consider small firms that don't pay as much, contract agencies that can place you in a temporary position or family friends or law school alumni wiling to do favors (trust me, if you think hard enough you will identify at least a handful) and make calls. These are all good options that should be aggressively pursued. [HP note: no stalking!]. (Warning, be prepared for a serious salary cut, but consider it a great investment in your future).

Clerkships are also alternatives to small firms and temporary contract work, but refrain from multiple clerkships (unless extremely prestigious). Law clerk experience is valuable but you don't want to paint yourself as not ready or prepared for firm life and right or wrong, a two to three year stint as a law clerk will do just that. (By the way, if that is what you want, you could also wait. I know an associate who took a two year leave of absence recently to take a clerkship at a federal court of appeals. He is now back and getting plugged right back into life at firm).

Bottom line, you need experience and you need to be able to document that you stayed in the market and did not give up. It is not necessarily common, but I have personally hired at least one attorney who came in as a contract attorney and demonstrated to me her ability to make an outstanding associate. (Some firms, however, do have a policy prohibiting hiring contract attorneys as associates). Working as a contract attorney on a longer term basis can also help you obtain a referral for future employment at a firm.

Ok, I didn't say pursue a government job. First, it is not so easy to quickly obtain employment in the government. The application process itself can take months, and you can't afford months. Second a government job is not an easy springboard to a big firm in most instances. A United States Attorneys Office is one thing, but a GS-11 position at FEMA, DOL or the EEOC, probably not. (Government work is sometimes easier to explore once you are at a firm. I know of at least four associates who left the firm to explore opportunities at the Dept. of Justice, primarily to obtain trial experience. It is not easy to return, and not all former associates want to return. I know one who tried and was welcomed back and is now Counsel.

To sum up:

-- pursue small firm work, temporary contract work, available clerkships

-- contact alumni and friends in the field who can make some calls or introductions

-- review firm web sites - who do you know? who is an alum of your law school or college?

-- be careful of career limiting opportunities like multiple clerkships, certain government jobs.

Guest Poster - Helpful Hints

2009-01-24T17:29:00.000-08:00

I am the guest poster that was introduced here last week. I am a partner at an Am Law top 10 firm. I know this is a very hard time for all of us, especially given the lay offs at many of the nation's top law firms. It is more important than ever for associates to stay focused on their performance and to continue to demonstrate their value to their respective firms. There are a lot of ways to do this - here are four quick pointers: (1) Communicate. Make sure that you are always on the same page with your partner regarding the scope of an assignment, the due date for that assignment and the form of the the assignment (email, or formal memo); (2) No Suprises. Make sure that your team members know where you are on the weekends and know in advance, if possible, when a vacation is planned. (3) Blackberry. Everyone should regularly check their messages and respond to them, but do not use your blackberry or your cell phone when you are in client meetings or meeting with your Partners. and (4) Legal Research. It is good to be thorough, but with Westlaw and Lexis it can come at a huge cost for the client and a surprise for the billing Partner. Always ask if you are going to use these expensive on-line research tools. Better yet, do not use them. Loislaw is free and just as good and there are others as well. Well those are my four pointers for this week, I hope they are helpful and I hope to be invited back again soon to offer suggestions. Have a great week.

Copycat?

2009-01-24T04:10:00.000-08:00

Someone mentioned Above the Law in the comments. I have been meaning to ask you, does anyone get the sense that they are copying HP's office. In the newish series they have where you can ask a question, they seemed to cover several topics I already covered. Such as the holiday party, and sending thank yous. With all the input they get from their huge reader base and the resources they have (over my little bare bones blog here), do you really think they need to copy me? Maybe I am off base, maybe it is just coincidence...but after the second time (and I think there was a third I can't remember), I just wondered if any of you noticed. Thoughts?

TMI = too much information

2009-01-24T03:55:00.000-08:00

As promised, I did want to address the TMI factor in workplace communications. I realize this is a law blog, but this advice really does apply across different industries and office environments.

Far too often, I and others receive emails or perhaps voicemails from people (attorneys, staff, etc.) indicating they will be out of the office, or late or something similar and then sharing TMI = too much information. I do not need to know that you have diarrhea, or an abscessed tooth or whatever. Of course if there is a serious health problem and you will be out for an extended time, that is a different situation. I am talking about brief absences. And these don't have to be limited to doctors' appointments and sick days. This can include your being out to attend to a child's event, such as a party at school.

Years ago, a staff member at my sister's firm would be absent from work a lot due to the usual illnesses that come up with a young child. Every time she would email "Johnny has a virus and I will be out." "Johnny has [insert illness." They understand but it was getting old. And when she specified that she would be out to join the class at the pumpkin patch field trip later on, that just about sent everyone off the edge. A simple "I will be out of the office for some appointments tomorrow but will be checking messages and here is my cell" would have been fine, and more effective.

You really don't need to share details, generally speaking. If someone tells me they have "an appointment outside the office," I don't ask any further questions. This is a good all purpose line. I often have appointments or meetings outside the office. That is enough information for most workplaces. A former colleague of mine was given solid advice by a mentor, something along the lines of "don't say you are going to the hair stylist or your kids' school, etc. Just say you have an appointment outside the office." Someone else I know puts an out of office message along the lines of "I will be attending a series of meetings outside the office on ________, but I will be checking voicemails and emails.." Now the series of meetings could include the dentist, the parent teacher conference, etc. But we don't need to know all that. Keep it short and professional. Of course, keep an eye on messages if you can to guard for any work crises that may arise while you are out.

Thanks for your input. I will try to go back to at least 2-3 times a week posting. Hang in there, I know it is a difficult market. I have a few friends now out on the street.

Have a fun Saturday.

apologies

2009-01-23T04:30:00.000-08:00

Arrrh...guest partner, who I trusted, ot busy on a matter and didn't draft the entry. I'm sorry we kept you waiting. I really thought GP would get this done. GP is in some hot water with me now. You shouldn't let your friends down. If you commit to a task, you do it, even if you are busy. There is always some time. I told GP that it isn't as easy as it seems, writing something for the blog, but it doesn't take that long once you sit down and get the thoughts rolling.

Oh well, I will give GP a second chance when GP is ready. I'm sorry we kept you folks waiting. You deserved better.

I will post this weekend. If you've got pressing questions, send them along and I will see what I can do. Happy Friday!

News - Guest Partner coming

2009-01-14T16:37:00.001-08:00

I'm excited to report we are going to have a guest poster soon. Guest Partner is a partner at another law firm. Guest Partner should be posting shortly and will introduce self to you. I'm hoping guest partner will provide some additional views and I always think it is great to hear from different people.

So, I hope you will welcome Guest Partner and treat GP with the same warmth and respect you send my way.....well, since GP is a guest, a little nicer please. Actually, GP is very no nonsense and somewhat tough -- will be good to get that viewpoint as well.

Stay tuned and join my in welcoming Guest Partner to our fold.

the Hypersensitive Colleague

2009-01-10T04:25:00.000-08:00

My discussion of watching the F-bomb and other questionable language reminded me that I meant to mention the hypersensitive colleague. Do you remember in law school the case of the "eggshell plaintiff"? (Hopefully I have remembered the reference correctly). This person isn't necessarily the "reasonable person" standard but is overly sensitive to things others may say or do -- putting this in the workplace perspective rather than the torts perspective.

The hypersensitive colleague can cause you trouble. How? Well, let's say you joke around with hypersensitive colleague about [insert anything, they are very sensitive after all]. Hypersensitive colleague complains to a partner/or management. Now, the supervisors may very well know hypersensitive colleague complains about everything; but, you might nevertheless be implicated in making a reportedly insensitive or even inappropriate comment.

You might be asking: this is a minefield...how will I know when I am stepping on a bomb? The problem is you won't know necessarily. But, if you hear someone could fall in this category, be very careful about jokes, misc. observations (especially of the personal type, etc.). Keep it very professional. Be overly cautious in your communications with this type of colleague.

I've seen some good questions in the recent comments posted here and will try to address some of them.

Have you done something to advance your career in the last week? Reached out to someone new? Started to learn about a new area?

F-Bombs and Other Curses/Language

2009-01-09T09:16:00.000-08:00

Hmmm....there seems to be some back and forth in the comments to my last post regarding F-bombs in the office, and related bad language. Look, I am not saying that I never say the F-bomb. I am just saying you need to be careful about language you use in the professional workplace. You'll recall this came up in my discussion regarding being careful what you put out there in the social networking/cyberspace world.

If you are sitting in a friend's office and the F-bomb flies, this is not a big deal. But, you need to be careful about who you use foul language in front of -- don't assume that just because someone is your age, or younger, or you are very familiar with them, that throwing the F-bomb or other foul language is ok. The best thing is to be careful and watch the language.

First, do not curse in an interview! DON'T DO IT! Did you hear me? Don't do it. Just because some of us look young and maybe even hip doesn't mean we think it would be appropriate for you to say shit, or f-bomb or whatever along those lines. Or "the professor screwed me with that grade." This goes to JUDGEMENT...and we will think ... how will this person behave in front of a client?

Case in point, a relatively youthful partner of mine takes great offense when people curse -- in any setting. A person interviewed with her as a lateral. This guy figured they are about the same age and let the f-bomb fly. She complained and let her views known. I don't believe he got hired.

Second, do not curse with clients. Even if you are on very friendly terms, remember this is still an attorney/client relationship. Remember, I told you guys and gals at the very beginning of the blog -- YOU ARE NOT AT HOME. Guard your words.

Case in point, I had a client who is a very religious woman. You wouldn't necessarily know this off the bat, but over the years, I have learned how devoted she is to her religion. She would take offense to cursing.

Overall, just be cautious. That isn't saying you can't be yourself - but keep in mind you are in a professional setting and it is always better to be on the conservative side when it comes to oral and written communications.

We can address the TMI factor in communications in another post.

Hope you have a fun-filled weekend.

social networking

2009-01-06T16:46:00.000-08:00

Today, many of us have become devotees of Facebook and Myspace. I joined Facebook last year and have re-connected with many old friends. If you were to see my Facebook page, you would see a photo of me - fairly standard pic - and some family photos. A couple of friends have 'tagged" me in photos from the past. There's nothing shocking or "wild" out there in my Facebook land. And, that is what I wanted to address.

Social networking can be a powerful tool for reconnecting socially and possibly even leading to networking and business opportunities. But, you also have to be aware of the dangers when it comes to your career. Our recruiters routinely do Google and other searches on lateral and new recruits. They don't want to read everything; they do want to look for things that may show a lack of judgment or embarrass the firm. So, if you have a personal webpage listed on your Facebook account, and your personal webpage has pics of you drunk/half naked, etc., these are not going to help your career. I am a fan of social networking, but you need to use it cautiously. I just saw someone comment on another person's wall reminiscing about how they used to do mesc and ecstasy at a local establishment. Why would you post that publicly?

On Facebook, you can use the privacy controls to make your profile private and available just for your Friends. This is a good idea. If we can't access your information, that generally shows good judgment. On a related topic, beware what you post in your own name (versus anonymous) as comments on blogs, message boards, etc. These too will also come up in searches.

Feel free to connect with your friends through social networking. In fact, it is what I recommend in terms of connecting and reconnecting and expanding your base. Just remember who has access to your posts and remember that what you post -- even to your friends -- could easily be forwarded around.

When I was a junior associate, someone once taught me as to an email or a memo: if what you wrote ended up on the front page of the New York Times..would you or your client be terribly embarrassed? If so, don't write it.

Be social, but be safe.

And, on my earlier subject, what have you done this week to further your career?

salary freezes

2009-01-03T04:01:00.001-08:00

The big news on some of the other legal blogs appears to be salary freezes at various AM Law firms. This is usually followed by comments by associates at these firms noting how firm is traditionally "cheap," or a "follower," etc. Similarly, there's been a lot of talk on the boards about annual bonuses, whether "Skadden" level or "measly" half-Skadden (believe me, it is still a darn good bonus). In these times, with you, your relatives, or friends being laid off, why are we complaining?

If you have a bigLaw job and let's say, started off at 160,000 or even 135-145,000, the fact that firms are going to hold for a year at the same salary shouldn't be alarming. Of course, it is nice to get raises - understand the cost of living increases -- but I ask the same question; wouldn't you prefer a pay freeze or a reduced bonus over no job for you and your friends?? People need to come back to reality here -- a "half-Skadden" is still a friggin nice thing to have. And it is a heck of a lot better than being a headhunter's reject because there's few jobs out there.

Start the new year off without the complaints. Be enthusiastic. Be a company man or woman (while networking, developing expertise, growing your reputation and base). Long term view should trump the short term whining.

I also want to address social networking, and will do that in an upcoming post.

Thanks for your votes on the ABA journal. I still go trounced by the Temporary Attorney, but apparently there is a lot of interest in that topic these days!

Happy 09 once again.

Happy New Year

2009-01-02T03:47:00.000-08:00

Hello my friends. Happy New Year! We all know that 2008 was a difficult time in the legal market. Things changed drastically -- gone are the days when associates could just keep screaming on the blogs "raise the salaries," "raise the bonuses." Well, they could keep screaming but if it were me, I'd prefer a job over a bonus. While I hate to see firms like Heller and Thelen erupt, I do think that greed had gotten out of hand, both at the partner level and at the associate level. Clients shouldn't be gouged just so you can meet your targets - this applies to both partners and associates. And, my experience with many of the millenials was that they were obsessed with the money, and less obsessed with learning how to be a good lawyer and doing good legal work. I don't like to witness good lawyers laid off suddenly, but I also think that the new legal economy will bring things back into perspective, and where people work hard, get paid well, and do a solid job.

Now, since it is the new year, I guess we should have some resolutions. I would encourage each of you to do something at least once a week to further your career. This may be small steps, or bigger steps. You've heard me say this before, and I will say it again: you need to own your career. No one is going to guide it for you. Here's some suggestions for things we can all do:

1. Start to learn a new specialty or sub-specialty. There's tons of new laws and regulations out there at the federal and state levels. This is a huge opportunity for younger as well as more experienced lawyers. You can become well-versed in something new and perhaps be heard as the "expert" -- remember, someone practicing in the general area for 20 years also has to learn the new law or regulation...so go ahead and jump right in. You may love the fact that you know X inside and out. But what if the need for knowledge of X goes away? Don't get stuck in a very limited knowledge base. I've stayed busy (and employed!) by being able to adapt.

2. Continue to build your network. Do not just lunch with your office mates. Get out there. Call up old law school friends, people you met through bar activities, etc. You never know when these people will, say, move in house -- and it does happen. In addition to getting out of the office and clearing your head for a little while, you are expanding your base.

3. Don't forget to tend to your existing network. Did you see an Internet article or blurb that might be of interest to a contact, forward it with a short note; go ahead and wish them a Happy New Year; perhaps invite them to lunch or to an event your firm or organization is hosting (assuming you are allowed)

4. At the end of each week -- ask yourself -- what have I done to further my career this week? Make some notes about what you will do the following week.

3. If you are thinking of making a move, let your close friends (outside of firm or organization) who are discreet know that you may be open to opportunities. I know so many people who have found great positions through referrals from friends.

2. If you can help a friend, former colleague, etc., who may be "on the street" with suggestions for new situations, go ahead. Send them job listings you see, if you know of an opening at a client that may be right for your friend, let your friend know.

1. Don't burn bridges. If you act like an a-hole, people will not help you. This seems pretty obvious but you would be shocked at some of the behavior. Stay away from office cliques, treat all people with common courtesy and respect, deliver what you promise, be tough, but be fair.

reviews

2008-12-20T08:24:00.000-08:00

Someone asked for recommendations for how to behave in a review. I have touched on this in an early post as it related to summer associates in mid or end of summer reviews, but there are some additional pointers for attorneys.

First, do not be a passive participant, just showing up and listening. At a former firm, we associates could fill out a sort of self-evaluation report, where we could describe significant projects/achievements, as well as professional development activities, pro bono, firm activities (eg., recruiting committee) and community involvement. Although this was voluntary, and it was time-consuming to do what I perceived to be a thorough job, I forced myself to do it, figuring that the primary evaluator (or any evaluators who received it) probably didn't know everything I had done all year, and this would help them understand the big picture. Remember, the senior attorneys who complete written evaluations have several to do and it is an arduous task. They appreciated that I gave them information that they could plug into their evaluations. And, I felt better knowing that they were more aware of all I was doing. If you are not aware of such a form at your firm, ask around. I gave a junior associate a copy of one of my older self-evaluations that she could use as a model.

If there are particular issues you would like to discuss (say, I am a junior litigator, but I haven't defended a deposition), you may wish to drop the primary evaluator a note with some things you would like to discuss. Supervising attorneys generally like it when we see someone who is interested in furthering his or her professional development.

Have a sense of your numbers before you go in (e.g., hours, client origination (if applicable), etc. This helps if you get your evaluation and there's incorrect numerical information or numerical-based observations.

If you get a copy of the written evaluation before, review it carefully. Make notes of any incorrect statements or any items with which you disagree. You can be prepared to discuss -- calmly.

Bring a notepad and pen, you may wish to take notes.

Listen to the evaluator. Be appreciative of compliments. Take in constructive criticism. If there is something you do not understand, ask calmly for clarification. Oftentimes the evaluator has collected various comments from other reviewers, and may need to go back to any underlying evaluation form to determine what is meant.

If you have information to share -- like hours information is incorrect, or you actually did defend a deposition when they said you still needed to do so -- share that with the reviewer. While you shouldn't be overly defensive or abrasive, this is YOUR career and you shouldn't sit passively like a pillow on a couch. I often was able to get things added to my evaluation that were overlooked.

Feel free to express appreciation to the evaluator for his or her efforts. These evals do take up a lot of non-billable time.

If there are opportunities you would like to get, especially with the evaluator (e.g., work on the xxx case, or a xyz type of matter), go ahead and express that as well. This is usually a good time to indicate the areas you are interested in, and to show that you are more than an employee -- that you want to develop your career and expand your capabilities and experiences.

No crying. Doesn't help.

No whining. Only hurts.

Be professional, be calm.

-- These words of advice assume that you are not getting canned in the evaluation or otherwise "set up." We can address that situation another time.

questions on early lateral moves

2008-12-15T17:53:00.000-08:00

A commenter asked about the options:

- if you hate your first job

-- how long one can expect to have to stay at a firm before moving on

I'd say after 2 years is a good time to start working with a recruiter (ask trusted friends for recommendation, preferably someone outside your firm to avoid leaks). Most firms and recruiters think that you should stay 2 years before moving; you get a fair amount of experience and you don't look like and immediate job-hopper. Years 3-4 are probably the busy times for lateral associates, more movement, better focus by the associate as to what kind of practice they want, how firm B could be better than firm A, what they are really looking for long and short term. The recruiter calls do slow down as you hit year 6 and above.

-- how long grades are going to be following you around, etc.

E.g? great grades 1L and 2L, great firm for summer, and then C in 3L: cause for worry if want to lateral after 2 years.

E.g.: grades not great, but land job @great firm; at what point grades irrelevant.

Grades do become less important. Firms you are considering lateraling to will ask for a transcript as a matter of diligence (even HP had to give one when HP moves firms as a P). As an associate, your grades may be reviewed, but if you worked at a solid place, have a good reputation/references, as long as your grades aren't totally in the toilet, you should be fine. After a couple of years, at least in most places (I'm excluding special practices like Supreme Court practices where they may be partial to Yale Law grads and brainiacs), the HP is more interested in your experience in the workplaces and whether you are qualified for the position, and less concerned about the grades. Good grades are always a plus, but I can tell you in any mid size to large firm, if you pulled out the transcripts, there are a wide range of grades and even law schools out there.

If grades not great, keep plugging along, develop expertise, get known within the local and/or speciality bar, get out to bar and other events, grow your base.

I've even seen one guy with hideous grades get an associate job at a firm because he had very particular expertise and background that a practice group leader needed. Now, he didn't work out long term (and this HP wouldn't have hired him in first place because grades were really, really bad and he wasn't that far out of school), but the point is that experience can surpass grades when it comes to hiring.

I will aim to get back posting and I have to encourage my guest posters to start posting!

2008-12-13T11:59:00.000-08:00

BTW, did you folks vote for our blog over at abajournal? I can't believe HP is getting a** whooped by the Temporary Attorney blog! Somehow I am insulted. Though in this market, I guess I see the interest in finding a job as a temporary attorney. Anyway, please vote when you have a chance. For no other reason than HP doesn't like to lose.

Layoff Questions

2008-12-13T10:32:00.000-08:00

Hello all. Well thank goodness the overly sensitive types have gone away. Now we can get back to actual advice.

A commenter asked about layoffs and whether they are generally less public than we have been seeing as of late. Sure, there always have been, and will be, "quiet" layoffs. There have always been and also will be "quiet" performance-based terminations. When the economy is difficult, firms tend to say goodbye to people more quickly than when things are busy busy and you need more bodies. I have seen plenty of mediocre or non-hardworking lawyers in law firms in prior years. Those people won't get to hang around as long in the current economy.

What used to happen when one is let go (assuming not "for cause") in BigLaw was the standard 3 month salary/winding down. The individual being let go may or may not continue to do work. Basically, the firm would pay the person, benefits continued, secretarial support, etc., but the person would generally focus on new employment finding. This wasn't horrible since the person could use the office/computer/phones etc and by outward appearances was just moving laterally. Typically the firm would want a settlement agreement and release. I know several people who have done these kind of arrangements, found new employment (other firms, in-house, etc) and moved on. I've also known people who are so shocked at getting terminated that they never really got over it. The bottom line is, in an economic situation, it is not your fault, and you need to do your best to move forward. If it was performance based, you should try to understand the issue; perhaps BigLaw or law firms in general are not your strong suit.

Someone asked if most people who leave firms are actually being let go. The answer is no. People leave for a wide variety of reasons, which is why there is such high attrition in law firms. Any of the following and others occur: move to different city for spouse job/self job/need to be closer to relatives; move in-house; move to government or non-profit organization; litigator who wants more trial experience and gets prosecutor-type job; person who moves to a boutique; person who just moves laterally; mom who decides to stay home with children; dad who decides to stay home with children (see, HP very PC); person who leaves law entirely for new field. Sure, some people are let go, but as I mentioned in the comments to a post, don't assume because someone is leaving that they had to, and don't gossip. It only ends up getting back to them and they get pissed and might even complain to management.

Remember, no one is indispensable. You can work hard to make yourself as valuable to the organization as you think you can/connect with big rainmaker/develop needed niche specialty/develop ton of own business etc., but there are many variables out there -- e.g., loss of huge client. We don't always have control over these things. The best things to do are to try to create a safety net through building relationships, developing a solid reputation, developing great substantive legal skills and getting out in the legal and business and social community so you are not wedded to one practice group/firm/partner. Remember no one looks out for YOU the way YOU need to. And, don't piss too many people off. People have long memories, and they are not apt to help (and can hurt) your career down the road when you need friends, not enemies.

Happy weekend!

Next post will try to address the questions raised regarding lateral movement

Mentors

2008-12-09T17:57:00.000-08:00

Who has helped you along the way and who have you helped? We can often be both mentors and mentees. Some of us are lucky to happen upon a terrific individual who takes us under their wing simply because they like to do so, or believe they have a social responsibility to do so, etc. Others find mentors spring from hard work. HP once had a terrific mentor. HP did a lot of grunt work for the mentor that ultimately built up a relationship of trust and admiration. And, mentor stood up for HP when HP needed mentor to do so.

If you don't have a mentor, how can you connect with one? Well there are several ways to do so. And remember, you can have more than one mentor at a time, or over time, you can have mentors who practice in your area, or other areas, you can have mentors who are both genders (OK everyone???). HP's best mentors over the years have been men and women, corporate lawyers and litigators. Mentors can be inside and outside of your organization.

Connecting....some firms have mentoring programs. The results of these can be mixed, because it is not a natural evolution, at least at the start...you are usually assigned based upon some connection or someone's reasoning why the pairing would be a good one, and considering any rules of the program. I think in most instances, it is a good idea to participate to at least widen your network and see if it works for you.

Otherwise, reach out to people...not "hello, will you be my mentor," but rather, in a way that builds a relationship. Ask around as to what more senior lawyers tend to be good mentors; try to see who you may have some things in common with, whether it is bar association activities, or sub-speciality interest, etc. I know some solid mentor/mentee relationships that began when the mentee offered to help with book chapters the partner was writing or articles. These helped the junior attorney develop a deeper knowledge base in the area, get his/her name out there, and work with the intended mentor.

Now, who have you helped? Yes, you. We can all be mentors in some way. HP tries to reach out to more junior attorneys to help them along the way; encouragement on client development, advice on firm social functions, explaining processes, and general strategy. Aside from doing a good deed, doing right by others, it never hurts. People remember people (well some, anyway) who help them, especially when they are down. You have a friend out of a job, think of some suggestions if you can. I know a guy with a great newish client. How did he get the client? Well when their GC lost his last job in a corporate restructuring, this other lawyer stayed in touch, put the GC in touch with others, basically tried to help. He did not help place GC at new company but GC did land. GC said "if this guy took such care when I was down, I know he will take care of me at new company." You never know when doing good will bring good to you.

The Holiday Party

2008-12-06T09:29:00.000-08:00

Last night, HP attended a firm holiday party. HP thought, this is a useful topic for a new post. Many of you will be attending holiday parties over the next couple of weeks (btw, I mean those associated with work, not the regular type with family or friends). Some may be invited as summer associates, others as lawyers with the firm. Actually, this advice really applies in professional settings generally.

Let me start out by noting that none of this is rocket science. It is pretty much common sense. But no matter, we will still see some holiday party train wrecks.

Top 10 things to do/not to do at firm (or company) holiday party (not necessarily in order, but HP has a lot to do today:

10. Fail to RSVP -- in a large organization it may not be noticed, but in smaller ones, it may be noted as rude or especially inconsiderate if, say, someone is hosting at their home.

9. Dressing inappropriately. Unless it is black tie, suits are fine for men. The women tend to get into more trouble here since there's more ambiguity. Low cut (read: bosoms hanging or more than a bit of cleavage) will get you noticed in the wrong way. For guests, you may wish to advise similarly, since for years, people at one firm I know discussed a partner's wife and her hanging boobs and the xmas party of 1999?

8. Sitting/hanging with people you always hang with. You guys and gals know that HP wouldn't like this. The point is to get out and mingle. Introduce your guest; make polite small talk. It helps to have a guest who is outgoing but at a minimum, seems pleasant and don't say anything to piss off someone (e.g. ,a guest once insulted HP's spouse).

7. Wild dancing. At some parties, everyone is dancing. At others, just staff. You need to kind of judge this for yourself. The safe side is probably not to dance since so many of us look dumb. In any event, NO DIRTY DANCING. Yes, I have seen this one myself. Of course, alcohol can be a factor; you know that is coming later.

6. Bringing your kids Unless kids are invited (sometimes there are kids holiday parties), do not bring your children -- small or big -- to a firm party. I am still perplexed by colleague who brought teen son (and wife) to black tie party. Teen son then proceeded to best-friend bartender and drink illegally. Seemed odd and was very noticed.

5. Hook up with co-workers. Please do not do the heavy flirt/obvious pick up at the holiday party. We may not know what goes on after hours, but attorneys and staff cavorting in front of us do not help your profile. Co-attorneys may be a different issue and of course many issues involved there -- supervising attorney or not, etc. The bottom line is, keep the sexy stuff out of the holiday party.

4. If clients are attending, be on special guard. Pleasant, cheerful, stay away from controversial topics, etc.

3. Do thank the organizers of the party if you know who they are, it never hurts.

2. Don't gossip about others in the mens/ladies restrooms; you never know who is in the stalls!

1. You knew this one was coming -- don't get toasted. DON'T DO IT. People, remember. It is unprofessional and can lead to a violation of several of my no nos above (e.g., hookups). Just because the liquor is complimentary does not mean this is the frat house. You can drink but take it easy and stop early. A DUI would be a very bad career move; being a loud drunk is also a bad career move; hurling at the holiday party similarly not the best career move.

-- I should have made number 1 to Attend -- but this varies -- assuming lawyers do go and it is not a 98% staff function -- yes, you should attend.

Have fun, be safe, and network!

follow up on a tale of two associates

2008-12-04T16:47:00.000-08:00

The two associates tale seems to have elicited some response and perhaps misunderstanding.

First, HP means no disrespect to women lawyers. In fact, HP is known as an extremely supportive P when it comes to advancing women. BTW, why do so many out there even assume HP is a man? HP never identified gender. HP could be a woman. Why not? Many HPs out there today are women. I think there are some inherent biases here; since the launch of HP's blog, many people have just assumed HP is male. That may be incorrect and a biased assumption.

On the subject of the two associates -- unless I didn't describe them the way I meant to, BOTH are hardworking -- Susan isn't "schmoozing." In fact, if you read the description, she is the more hardworking one (at least that is what HP intended). But, really my point was that Mindy is selling herself short in the long run -- and perhaps in the short run - but my point was to her overall reputation, status, and development. Staff complained Mindy wouldn't acknowledge them; even women partners indicated Mindy didn't seem at all receptive when they reached out. Now, hopefully Mindy has a good protector in her group -- but down the road, wouldn't it have made more sense for Mindy to have built her reputation in the office, beyond her practice group, beyond just the main people she works with? HP is saying again not to be one-dimensional. It makes sense to get to know more people for so many reasons, and have those people respect you.

Case in point, HP has a friend who is a woman partner and a solid business developer. Friend not slave to law firm. Friend has a family, works a reduced schedule, volunteers in the schools, etc. Friend by all accounts has a good balance. How did friend get this? Well, friend worked hard as an associate. Friend showed respect to all and was extremely responsive, pleasant and cordial - to other colleagues in her office, to colleagues in other firm offices, even to opposing counsel. Friend now gets all sorts of referral work. From where? From former colleagues (even those not in practice group) who have moved in house, from former clients, even from former adversaries. Friend has developed reputation as a terrific, top notch lawyer who can be trusted and who is respected. Mindy was not on her way in this scenario.

I am not sure why people thought Susan was just schmoozing. Getting out of the office, getting involved in bar activities, professional organizations, etc, isn't just schmoozing. I even said Susan developed a sub-specialty. A wise lawyer with a huge client roster once said "you can be the best lawyer out there, but if no one knows who you are or what you do, you won't be a very successful lawyer." Susan was working hard and developing her reputation. She wasn't just hanging out at Starbucks with her friends - that is more of a Mindy thing.

I hope that has cleared up a few items.

I will try to address the burn out (Rachel?) comment and also the "what if Susan has kids"comment ( so what? - see note re: Friend above). She can have kids and still be dedicated, successful and see those kids -- bad bias on your part.

a tale of two associates

2008-12-03T17:26:00.000-08:00

An interesting story from HP's former firm provides some good material for today's example of how to be a great "all around" associate who helps advance her own career.

Associate 1. Let's call her Susan. Susan joined the firm laterally a short time ago. Susan is a pleasant, cheerful person, but definitely at the firm to work hard, do whatever needs to be done to get the job done -- working late, weekends, etc. Susan is pleasant and respectful to all -- partners she works with, other partners, counsel, and attorneys in the office, staff, etc. Susan does make an effort to attend firm events, such as holiday party, group meetings, women attorney meetings, etc. Associate Susan is known as an extremely hard working attorney who is highly professional, trustworthy and personable. She has also shown some business development potential by inviting her contacts to appropriate firm events and by developing a sub-specialty.

Associate 2. Let's call her Mindy. Mindy started with the firm as a summer associate and is now a mid level associate. (Btw, no offense meant to our women lawyers here, these could be two men; they just happened to be two women at my former firm). Mindy is a bright woman, with a strong pedigree. Mindy does seemingly solid work for her group. Mindy is seen socializing with her practice group, but not with others. Staff complain that she does not really acknowledge them. Other attorneys feel the same way. While Mindy may be a good lawyer, we don't get the sense that she cares much about the firm (since she doesn't really participate in firm events), the other lawyers and personnel outside practice group, or really growing her career. We don't see her involved in firm committees, or outside groups. Best we can tell, she bills her time, hangs with her friends at firm, and leaves.

So, if times are tough, who would you choose if you had to lay off one? Well assuming both are fairly occupied on client matters...I would choose Susan as the one to keep of course. She's got more long term potential -- solid firm citizen plus business development potential. And people like her, and she's building her network, reputation, knowledge base, etc.

Second question, who has a brighter future? Well, of course Susan. She's getting out of the office, she's interacting with colleagues outside her group, and she's not causing any waves or creating bad feelings.

Third question, if I move in-house tomorrow and have a need...who would I call? Duh...Susan. Because I can trust her, and know that she will do a good job and know that she will make me look good -- because I have interacted with her and seen her interact with others.

Fourth question, if my former colleague who is now a senior in-house counsel calls me down the road and says he is interviewing Mindy for a position and what are my thoughts on her...what do you think HP will say? HMMMM.

Mindy - for a smart gal -- is behaving dumb dumb dumb. Perhaps finding a rich hubby is her game plan. But, her behavior in the workplace -- being aloof (if not rude), clique-y, not getting involved in firm through committees, not getting to know her other colleagues, etc., is short-sighted in so many ways -- advancement in firm, advancement elsewhere, etc.

Build your reputation, expand your friends, be respectful to all, get involved, be a good firm/company citizen -- be someone others respect, like, and trust. Don't be a Mindy.

small and mid sized firms

2008-12-02T03:28:00.000-08:00

People sometimes ask HP if it is possible to make the move to BigLaw from a small or mid sized firm. The answer is yes. As prospects at BigLaw for entering and lateral associates shrink (my recruiter friends tell me hiring is pretty flat and very slow), many of you will need to expand your base of possible employers, as we have discussed. In the boom days, with good grades, a good law school, and a decent personality, BigLaw is in sight. However, these are different days and require some further thinking, creativity, and go-getting if you haven't landed through BigLaw recruiting channels -- and I don't believe BigLaw is for everyone anyway. HP is just saying that the fall on campus recruiting process is a relatively pain fee process of finding a solid job. It is more difficult to branch out. But, that is what many will need to do, especially first years.

So, you ask, can I go from a smaller firm to Big Law eventually (assuming that is a goal)? Yes, you can. But how? Well, wherever you are, you want to do great work and build your reputation. Get involved in bar activities (you can often get involved even as a law student). Reach out to potential mentors. Offer to assist with committee work such as newsletters or meeting preparation. Yes, it is grunt work and takes up time you could be doing other things, but it is a great long term investment. Get your name out in the community. Work in an area you love (ok, at least like). Try to develop sub-specialties in growing areas. When recruiters call you, be polite -- call them back and establish a relationship. If they don't call, ask friends for recommendations and reach out.

Where does Big Law come in? Well, a couple (few?) years down the road, slots will open when associates depart through the normal course or an area picks up and the firm needs additional bodies. Firms will reach out further to fill these slots. I have recommended several candidates we interviewed from smaller firms because of the experience in a certain specialty area where we needed help.

Familiar tune here? HP hopes I don't sound like a broken record when HP says that you need to push forward even harder during more difficult times to build your reputation, network, and seek opportunities.

More on connecting with the small and mid sized in a later post.

Vote for HP's Blog

2008-12-01T18:26:00.000-08:00

HP interrupts the usual career advice to share some exciting news...

The ABA Journal announced that it has selected Hiring Partner's Office as one of the top 100 best websites by lawyers, for lawyers!

Now, my friends, you can vote for your favorite blog. To vote, go to http://www.abajournal.com/blawgs/blawg100_2008 We are under the Careers section. Please don't let Gerry Spence beat HP (not that HP is competitive or anything)

Voting ends Jan. 2, 2008. Vote early; not sure if you can vote often! Wow, who would have thought HP's original rantings regarding flip flops would lead to minor fame, if not fortune. As HP has just spent hours on firm administrative stuff, and had a lonnnng day, HP needs a little pick me up. Thanks again for your support! HP has to say that I am most impressed when my commenters give each other advice -- a lot of it very helpful and on the money. So, you folks should be darn proud of yourselves.

Advice for the Anxious

2008-11-28T03:32:00.000-08:00

First, let me say that F-3, a frequent commenter here, has been giving some solid advice. HP can't always blog as HP has client duties, administrative duties, and a personal life. So, HP appreciates it when others step in to help out.

I know that many of you are anxious. On the subject of 1Ls, let me say that BigLaw jobs will be few and far between. You guys and gals know that. They always have been, and this year will be a heck of a lot worse. So, what to do? If there's an area of law you are interested in, i.e. a specialty, I would recommend you try to find a paid (or unfortunately unpaid) internship at a governmental (state or federal) agency that handles these matters, at a corporation, or a smaller firm. HP's friend who is an HP at another firm hired a gal for 2L summer from a decent (but not top tier) law school with pretty good, but not top of the class grades. Why did this gal get the offer? Well, a particular practice area has indicated they need a junior associate. This gal spent her 1L summer at a governmental agency that oversees the industry served by practice group. The gal also had prior work experience in the industry. This gave her the edge over others who may have had better credentials but less "connection" to the specialty area. Playing this out another way, let's say you may be interested in employment law. There are tons of state anti-discrimination agencies out there where you could get experience helping to investigate matters under various civil rights laws.

And, btw, we do often check references -- even if you don't provide them to us. Oftentimes, either HP or someone in the firm will know people at the places you worked. We may very well call up a contact there and get their assessment of you. These are buyer's times again and we are buyers, so we can be extra cautious and careful about who we hire. HP's friend had a gal who worked in-house last summer at a place where HP's friend knew a senior in-house counsel. HP's friend called up the counsel and asked about the summer associate's work, demeanor, etc. This goes in the advice category to do a good, solid job no matter where you are because -- HP ALREADY SAID THIS: YOU NEVER KNOW WHO KNOWS WHO -- it is your reputation and career -- guard it -- work hard, be honest, treat people (supervisors, colleagues, opposing counsel, and staff) with respect. What you do in one job or situation may come back to bite or help you.

I know you are wanting more advice and I will try to get back on track on being a more frequent blogger.

A belated Happy Thanksgiving!

Summer 09

2008-11-22T16:58:00.000-08:00

One of our commenters asked about next summer and whether everyone is "screwed." The answer is, no. I assume you mean for those of you who have offers? Well, let's start there. The majority of you will head into your summer jobs as usual. Some programs may be shorter than before. This wouldn't alarm me. Remember, firms view summer programs as a long term investment, not a money making enterprise. So, it is understandable that they may limit the number of weeks summer associates spend in their offices.

My advice for you is similar to what I did when I was a summer during a tough economic time (note: I was the only one in my summer class to get an outright offer...others were on "hold."). Keep your head down. Work work work ... like a dog. Yes, you should take part in social activities But, if there is a non-command performance and you have a project to finish...finish it. It would be helpful to get in early, stay late, have people view you as the type of person they would want to work with longer term. We often ask, is this someone I would want to work with at 2am if I had a deadline that took us into an all-nighter..is this someone who I can spend time with...and who I can trust to put the time in, not blow stuff off, and do a solid job?

Yes, this summer will be tough. You need to show that you are tough (but pleasant), bright, dependable. Double-check your work, be enthusiastic about your projects. If an important partner invites you to watch his or her depositions, negotiations, etc. - GO. Look interested. Help with whatever is needed. You need to make even more of an effort to show you are a STAR. The fun is over, it is time to bear down.

networking again

2008-11-16T10:59:00.000-08:00

HP returns, sorry for the delay there. The news out there in the legal market is grim. HP's firm has not had economic layoffs and did plan conservatively for next summer and fall incoming class. If you are a law student and anxious, I would say stay in touch with your firm. For instance, if you are invited to any firm events (such as a holiday party) and you can make it, show up and socialize (no drunks though, not helpful to future employment). Keep your eyes and ears open about how the firm is doing -- google searches, etc.

For those of you out there, you need to continue to develop your personal and professional network. A couple weeks ago, I witnessed a master networker in action. This guy was at a community service event and he was connecting with all sorts of people - in house, private firm, etc. He sent an email the next day circulating different people's emails to each other. He explained to me that as a GC, it is so important to network because you never know when your company will be sold, go out of business, etc. Get out of your offices and connect with old and new friends.

Staying Afloat: Michelle Obama's lesson

2008-10-27T02:46:00.000-07:00

HP is not a political person. In fact, I am tired of all the political polls, analysis, etc., and just ready for the election to occur. But, a recent article regarding Michelle Obama and her time at Sidley provides me with some guidance for our audience here. Reportedly (and I am just summarizing the article a friend sent me), Michelle's supervising partner thought highly of her and tried to give her solid work assignments. However, Michelle was not happy with these assignments (she was a second year associate) and eventually reportedly went over her supervising partner's head to the HR department. The supervisor observed something like "Michelle complained about doing second year association assignments. But she was a second year associate."

Lesson here? Unless you are getting ready to possibly be the next First Lady, in today's legal market, don't complain about doing tasks appropriate for your level. Yes, it is great to be ambitious, a go-getter, and eventually a rainmaker. But, if you want to stay afloat, the best thing to do in these down times when we are seeing layoffs is to keep your head down and DO YOUR WORK. Don't cause waves. Don't be a complainer, whiner, etc. BE A TEAM PLAYER. Try to keep your work plate full by going through the assignment channels to get work. Seek out potential mentors you might like to get to know and ask them if they need help. Volunteer for emergency and other projects. Sometimes I would get the "big win." This is where you volunteer, you look like such a great team player, yet the project goes away or for some reason they don't need you. No effort, but great goodwill.

Aside from client work, you can work on articles, firm client alerts, etc. This will help get your name out inside and outside the firm. Your goal is to remain occupied and build your positive reputation as a hardworking, solid firm citizen. Michelle Obama is an accomplished woman, but do not follow her example if you want to survive in a law firm in this legal market. Do not complain that you are doing second year associate tasks as a second year associate. Head down, positive attitude, team player. Complainers get canned. Goodwill can save.

Thank you for all your comments to the last post. HP will be reviewing them and incorporating your ideas.

Your Ideas

2008-10-22T18:43:00.000-07:00

Hey gang.

I feel like it is time to get some more input from you. What questions do you have for HP .. please no more on thank you notes.

How can HP and other HPs make the interviewing and hiring experience better?

What was the best place you interviewed and why? What really made a difference?

Give me your insights. Should we try to get on more blogrolls? Other ideas for expanding our base?

Professionalism Part II

2008-10-21T03:09:00.001-07:00

Remember: you are your reputation. Even in big cities, the legal world is a small world. I've said it before here, and I will probably say it again: people know people. You never know who is friends with who, whose husband or wife works at X company, etc. There are ways to be a zealous advocate for your client yet a fair and decent attorney. HP has been on the other side of many attorneys over the years. If you surveyed those people, HP would hope they would say that HP is a diligent, smart, tough but fair counsel. These are the kind of attorneys people respect. HP has received client referrals from former colleagues, former adversaries, and former clients. Keep in mind that whatever matter you might be working on, whether it is "your" client, or if you are a first year associate working on a larger matter, there are implications down the road. Of course, implications for the client. But also implications for you: how you perform is assessed by your supervising attorney, your clients, people your clients may tell (their colleagues, friends, family members in business etc.). Someone said recently to HP's friend "I'm referring you this matter because I know you will do a stellar job and you will make me look good to my client (who was the referral)." This is a huge compliment. It is based on one lawyer's high respect for the legal skills and client handling of another lawyer. Acting as a jerk, being less than careful, logging tons of excess time will not get you to this point. Remember, law is more like cross country than track. Yes, we occasionally sprint but we need to keep a swift, even pace to finish the race.

So:

-- check and double check your work.

-- return calls and emails promptly.

-- if you say you are sending a document, order, etc (yes, even to the other side), send it promptly. Follow through on your promises. If there are delays, let the recipient know why and when you will deliver.

-- don't overpromise.

-- if you don't know the answer, don't fib. It is ok to say you have to look into something.

-- yelling, cursing, and bullying don't usually help. In fact, if someone becomes obnoxious to me, I immediately go in my "you are getting nothing" mode.

-- keep clients and others informed of developments.

-- if you change documents, send redlines. Don't just say "we had a few minor changes." If you want us to sign off on something or pass along to our client, you got to show us what you did. We don't like surprises or sneak changes and it makes you look untrustworthy. Remember, even adversaries today can be clients tomorrow (job changes, referrals).

-- in the end, it is your reputation -- not your partners, not some other associate -- yours. Over the years, I have adopted the good traits of some fine mentors while recognizing that other traits were either not my style or not good for my reputation. Own your reputation. Remember -- and I know HP said this before -- no one is looking out for your career but you.

Professionalism

2008-10-18T17:35:00.000-07:00

I digress from my traditional advice on "hiring" to spend some time on professionalism. Over the years, as firms have become more obsessed with billable hours, as associates have become more obsessed with salaries and bonuses, and "laterals for hire" have moved from firm to firm in search of the biggest PPP, I feel many folks have lost track of professionalism. I guess what I am thinking here is that I don't believe firms are teaching our newer lawyers how to be good lawyers. When I say good lawyers I mean careful, smart, professional lawyers. And, the associates have become in some instances "Stepford lawyers," just moving from project to project, timesheet to timesheet, without focusing on the big picture and without questioning when something a higher up is saying is wrong or perhaps unethical or even unlawful.

So, I would like to spend some time in our posts focusing on these issues. HP spent many years at a solid AM LAW 200 firm. During the time HP was growing up there, HP will say that HP did have great mentors who taught HP these important professionalism traits. I don't think these same lessons are necessarily being taught there now, and I am concerned they are not taught at other firms. So, maybe I can pass along some here.

First, you are bright, diligent people. Don't become a Stepford Attorney. Let's say a partner wants to keep his or her group hours up and tells you to record time in a way that you are not sure sounds right. Do you just follow his or her instructions? If you've got a concern or actually feel it is unethical ...i.e. billing for work not done.. then do something about it. The partner is putting you, himself, and the firm at risk. Someone once told a group of associates "our clients may go to jail, we are not going to jail for them." Similar story here. Do not do something you think is unethical or illegal just because someone is telling you to do it. Go consult a department chair, an office managing partner, someone to ask their advice. I know this is risky but it is better than getting involved in shady timekeeping or other unethical issues. Do not sacrifice your ethical obligations and professionalism for someone's profit.

Second, when I was a first year associate, I had an orientation program. I still remember one important line from that program: "everyone here, at some point, will make a mistake. Do not attempt to hide it, don't think it will go away, and don't have a heart attack. Tell someone." I think of that to this day. Once, it happened to me. I thought I forgot to do something in connection with a appellate brief. I fessed up to the senior associate, thinking I was about to die. I am sure I lost sleep. He said, oh, I remembered that and took care of it yesterday. Crisis averted! Remember, a lot of mistakes can be cured, but if you try to bury them -- like my brother used to do with his bad report cards in the front yard so our parents wouldn't find them -- sometimes the mistakes will become bigger and bigger problems.

More in a later post. Hope you are having a nice weekend.

courtesies

2008-10-15T18:24:00.000-07:00

Proper professional action: You haven't heard from a firm since you got a call back, other than the recruiting coordinator checking in. You have another offer and you decide to take the sure thing. You accept other offer. You send a short, nice note to recruiting coordinator withdrawing your candidacy and thanking the firm for its consideration. Recruiting coordinator copies HP. HP says, yes, I liked that guy, it is too bad I was stuck waiting for pain in the neck candidate to accept his offer. HP will remember that the good guy was professional and should HP come across good guy in the market again (e.g., lateral applicant), HP will have good feelings.

Crappy actions: You have offer. People from the firm email you to say congrats. No one hears back from you. What is so friggin hard? Hit reply and say "thank you, I enjoyed meeting you during my visit and will definitely get in touch if I have further questions." (This assumes you are still considering firm). We don't understand when people go silent.

Dumb action: You are still interested in firm but we haven't heard from you in weeks. Yes, you are probably on hold, but if you like us why not let us know you are still interested. Candidate A got an offer a couple of weeks ago because candidate B had gone silent and we figured not interested.

Crappy actions: You accept offer, or after you get offer, firm sends you a goody basket of treats, firm toys, whatever. Drop an email and thank the hiring coordinator, the HP, someone. I realize I sound like your mom telling you to send a thank you note to grandma for the bday gift, but these are common courtesies that seem to be missing. Same goes for stuff sent to you when you pass bar, graduate law school, etc. Acknowledge and express appreciation.

Call backs but no offers

2008-10-08T17:31:00.000-07:00

A few of you have wondered what to do if no offers have been made, despite several call backs interviews. As I mentioned before, you may still be on hold. Yes, you might be the second or third choice, but in the end, if you end up at a firm you like and they hire you full-time (because you've proven yourself), then who cares if you weren't the first choice. My suggestions would be to stay in touch periodically with the recruiting coordinator and let the know of your continued interest. This week, a candidate got an offer from me because the other potential that I had in mind had gone silent and I figured he or she wouldn't take our offer since didn't seem that interested. You may also want to drop an email to the Hiring Partner, especially if you met that person. We like people who show a strong interest because it means you are likely to accept. But remember, don't hound us, and please don't attempt to go over our heads with managing partners of offices, etc. We know what is going on and are doing the best we can to manage the numbers, particularly in this economy. We do not want to run into an oversubscription situation because we want to be able to give everyone full time offers at the end of the summer. We are being more cautious this year because we can't risk over-capacity. If you hear from our recruiting coordinator, it is probably because the HP has asked her or him to check in with you to see if you are still interested. This means we still are thinking of you.

Now, what else should you do. If you think things are not going well, I would expand your search -- look for company internships, governmental summer positions, smaller/mid-size firms. Find something that will add to you resume and may have some potential of future employment. I realize the law firm route is more direct but with the market being as it is, you will need to be more creative. And yes, ask your contacts in the legal and business world for advice. HP got a IL summer job because HP asked HP's uncle if he knew any law firms with openings (uncle was in transportation business). Resume went to a law firm and HP got interviews. It turned out that HP's uncle sent it to his friend, who happened to be a private investigator for the firm. Sure, it wasn't an AM LAW 100/200 firm, but it was great experience and got a law job on HP's resume to position HP for 2l hiring. So, you never know. Don't be shy - make the ask!

Answering Some Questions

2008-10-05T16:58:00.000-07:00

I have to say, HP isn't that inspired as to a particular topic, so I thought I would answer some questions you've had.

1. A student asked about whether he/she should transfer from a not great school to a more prestigious school. I would say, particularly in the legal market the next few years, it probably is a good idea to upgrade schools. The one caveat I would have is if your grades are superb, you like the current school, and you plan to practice in the region where that particular school is viewed favorably, you may want to stay. If you want to work in a big market and you are not there, or you are there but at a mediocre school, you've got a tough rode. I saw someone who transferred from a mediocre school to Georgetown. We interviewed them. They would not have received an interview if their resume indicated they were still at the mediocre school. That said, if I were a regional firm in that mediocre school's region and this candidate had top grades, law review, etc., the person probably would do just fine.

2. We've had several questions on following up after callbacks. I have to say, there are several candidates "on hold" at HP's firm because HP is waiting to see if other people accept their offers. It is perfectly acceptable to check in after a couple weeks, and even a couple weeks after that. Of course, there's a fine line between obsession and professionalism. I like when people check in because it shows me they are still interested in us. So, if I am deciding whether to give an offer to Student A or Student B, part of what I am thinking of is who is likely to accept (perhaps before the NALP deadline!) and I may choose based on who seems most interested. I haven't heard from someone in a while and figure he's moved on while we have seen other candidates. Maybe he thinks we are not interested in him? In any event, I am probably going with someone else who I think will take the offer.

3. This actually isn't answering a question, but putting out a request. If you've got multiple offers and -- since you have firm X you aren't taking firm Y, please go ahead and politely decline firm Y. We understand people make choices for different reasons. We may ask you your reasoning just so we can understand and if it is something we can improve, to find out what that is. In this economy, it would really help your colleagues and others if you decline early so that we can move on. I realize I am calling on your altruism but, as my high school foreign language teacher used to say "it's nice to be nice." If you are waiting on other firms, we usually understand that, but do keep the other firms informed of upcoming NALP imposed deadlines on your offers.

I hope that helps guys and gals. HP is going to go watch some baseball.

Diversity

2008-10-02T16:43:00.000-07:00

Some commenters wondered how diversity factors into our thinking and noted there seem to be "looser" standards for women and diverse candidates. I can only speak for this HP, but I will tell you my standards are not "looser" when we are speaking with diverse candidates. Rather, all things relatively (or nearly) equal, furthering the firm's diversity goals may come into play if we are considering Student A vs. B. However, a diversity factor won't - in my book - get you a call back if you weren't lauded by the screening interviewer. You might get a screening interview if your grades are outside the cutoff slightly. But, if you are far away from the cutoff, being diverse isn't helping at least at my shop. We have too many other candidates - diverse and non-diverse - who have great resumes.

On the subject of women, just being a woman doesn't really buy any easier route these days. We see plenty of women in our screens and call backs. It is more so the diversity factor that might be considered, assuming all else is equal. I assure you that there are no "looser" standards for women. If you see them getting call backs and offers, it is because they are highly qualified and -- as if often the case -- they tend to shine more in the callbacks personality-wise. Many women have an easier time connecting with people they are just meeting than men. Again, these are my observations. When I was on campus a couple of months back, the women were terrific. The men, more mixed.

I know I promised to discuss women's issues in a later post, and I will do so. The law firm world is a difficult place for working women - especially working moms. It has gotten better over the years. If you are considering a family life down the road, you do need to think about selecting firms/companies/other organizations that appear to promote women -including those with families (ie. not just those who give up lives to devote selves to firm). You do not want to be in a place where the lawyer moms are ghettoed to senior associate or of counsel forever. Lack of power = lack of respect. And, try to beware of that particularly evil brand of woman lawyer -- women who do not support other women. My lawyer/mom friend says "there is a special place in hell for women who denigrate other women (without any basis for doing so). "

Just HP's two cents for the day.

quick input re thank you notes

2008-09-29T05:54:00.000-07:00

Questions regarding thank you notes have been asked several times in the comments. My quick take is:

(1) not necessary after an on campus screening interview. But, if you want to send a short note expressing continued interest, enjoyed meeting interviewer, etc., this is AOK and might help. Since these decisions are usually made quickly regarding callbacks, you need to be prompt. An email is ok. I received one from a candidate that same afternoon while I was still on campus. In the end, his grades weren't high enough, but it did give me pause because he seemed like a good guy who was sincerely interested in firm/practice and I liked the very quick follow through. Had his grades been a bit higher, I would have given the callback and the speedy thank you would have played in my decision-making.

(2) after call backs, not totally necessary, but doesn't hurt. Needs to be timely, i.e. within one or two days. I don't mind emails; but you should do them within 24 hours since they can be sent more quickly than regular mail. I take a quick look then forward them on to the recruiting coordinator for the file and to our committee. To me, it shows follow-up and a continued interest. Now, if the candidate is so-so or didn't do well in interviews, it won't change anything. But if candidate is pretty good and we are choosing between a couple of people, we will factor in that this candidate seems really interested (i.e. perhaps more likely to accept than others) and that person may get the nod. Formal thank yous are fine also, just try to get them out quickly because there can be U.S. mail delays. I don't think we would choose one person over another because of the email versus hard copy thank you. That's me -- perhaps I'm less formally inclined on this one. But we do note a sincere thank you note and include it in the file. Again, if we have someone who sent a thank you versus someone who didn't and their reviews are similar, the thank you person may get the nod because we think they may be more likely to take the offer than to leave us hanging through the NALP waiting period. Especially in this economy, we need to be careful about offers and most of us are cutting back on class sizes.

Heller Serves as a Good Reminder

2008-09-28T04:13:00.000-07:00

HP is sorry to hear about Heller's impending dissolution. I worked with some of their attorneys and found them to be talented and dedicated. Alas, they will be out in the legal job market now, too. Unfortunately, they are out at a time when firm hiring is pretty flat. My legal recruiting friend tells me (even before Heller's announcement) that lateral associate hiring is quiet. Partners with books of business (of course) can find new firms. But, worker bee partners, counsel, and associates (aka "grinders or minders") are going to have a difficult time finding new firms, unless the rainmaking partner friend takes them along or they fill a very particular niche at a firm that is willing to hire them.

I realize most of you do not work at Heller. But, this situation presents a good lesson in remembering that the boom days are over and none of us are indispensable. You need to set yourself up, the best you can, for alternative situations. This applies equally to involuntary moves as well as to voluntary moves -- e.g., you need a change versus firm dissolving. Or, the firm brought in three lateral associates from a lateral group who are now above you class-wise.

Things happen. Yes, even to star associates. As they say, life is not fair. It is not always the most qualified person who advances.

So, what can the Heller attorneys do? My advice on this one applies to any attorney who needs or wants to move laterally. First, find yourself a reputable headhunter. Ask respected friends for advice. I used a headhunter when I moved and several former colleagues asked me months, even years, later, for the name of my recruiter. Listen to what he or she says about the market, your chances, etc. But, if you want something and they are not enthusiastic, you may need to find another recruiter. I had a former colleague who wanted to be a reduced schedule partner and her firm did not allow those arrangements. She consulted a recruiter who said that he had never placed a part time partner. So, she got another recruiter. Guess what...found a firm who made her a partner and let her have the reduced schedule. Why did this work out? The lawyer was committed to the advancement, she had portable business that would and did move with her, and the recruiter thought outside of the box.

Next -- this may sound obvious but it is really important -- network. Reach out to people in your network and let them know you may be interested in a move. Be cautious of course because you want to keep this quiet if you are still at your job (of course, the Heller attorneys don't have to keep quiet). Sometimes, a contact in your network will put you in touch with a contact in their network. Go ahead and reach out. Many people will be surprisingly helpful. Plus, if a law firm lawyer connects you with a great in-house job, there's a potential benefit for that attorney since you may send business.

Who is your network? Former colleagues who have moved to firms, companies, etc. People you know in your community (e.g., parents of kids on your kids' sports teams who are also professionals). Case in point. HP's friend had a great job open in friend's organization. Friend asked HP did HP know anyone. HP thought a minute then emailed a parent/lawyer friend at another firm. That person wasn't looking to leave but had a friend who was. That friend got the job.

We will discuss networking and strategies for exiting in greater detail in further posts.

Some keys are: maintain a strong reputation - make sure people inside and outside your firm/company/organization like and respect you -- i.e. don't be an a-hole; stay in touch with your former colleagues, classmates, etc. through the years; get involved in firm/company activities, bar activities etc. This will build your reputation.

Of course, having some portable business if you want to move firms is always a huge plus and will give you more options. Since this is a junior audience (I think), I won't harp on it, but we will explore how one develops business. It is possible, even for those who don't come from $$$ or professional families and who don't see themselves as rainmakers. Again, we'll discuss later. The bottom line is that "minders" and "grinders," of course, have fewer options than "finders." A good lesson to keep in mind.

I've Returned

2008-09-27T08:24:00.000-07:00

My loyal readers -- I have to apologize for being so out of touch. Next time I will try to give you word that I am taking a week or two off. Things were really busy at the firm, combined with recruiting and a death in the family -- not immediate family, but a close relative. Thanks for being patient. I am touched someone was concerned that I lost my job in the financial crisis. I'm fine, and thank goodness do not work at Heller.

It looks like I will have a lot of items to address. Someone asked about what is going on behind the scenes when you have come in for a callback, had what you perceive to be good interviews, yet haven't heard anything for a couple of weeks. You may still be in the running. In fact, we ding faster than we offer, in many instances. So, there's still hope. If you got a quick ding, it usually means it was not a fit. You had too many negative reviews, it was an obvious no go, etc. So, for those who haven't heard, what is going on?

Well, it could be a number of things. Perhaps the HP is out of town and needs to sign off. Or, HP wants to consult with a practice group leader of a group you expressed a strong interest in, and that person has been unavailable. It also may have to do with how the recruiting committee is run. Ours has weekly meetings. Unless we think we need to move on someone immediately (very special cases), we wait till our weekly meeting and then discuss each of the candidates who visited during the past week plus any we are holding. We may be comparing and contrasting students, and ranking our choices. We may decide to issue offer to Student A, but hold Student B and C, and ding D. If you just came in during the past week, we feel we can hold you longer than someone who was in a few weeks ago. Our recruiting coordinator may reach out to you to let you know you are still under consideration. This is to give you an update and possibly to get some sense of how your situation is panning out -- e.g., our coordinator will often ask you to let us know if you have an offer that needs action under the NALP rules -- that may force us to decide sooner. Finally, some firms have national recruiting committees in addition to local office committees, so they may need to wait until that meeting As I said, it can be any number of reasons.

You may wonder if the HP gets the ultimate veto. Again, depends. Someone may not "wow" me, but if everyone else loved them, I will go along. If it is more a split bag. Some people thought ok, others said "definitely offer," I may be the tie breaker. I try to be egalitarian on my committee to get different views and recognize that I tend to like a certain type of candidate and perhaps others like other types and different types will work fine in the firm.

So, what to do? After two weeks, it is AOK to check in with the recruiting coordinator, assuming that person was your main contact. Let them know you are still definitely interested. Don't look desperate, but do express your continued interest in the firm. Be respectful to the recruiting coordinator, these things are noted.

Attire Part II

2008-09-15T18:51:00.001-07:00

A male commenter asked about male attire and how "formal" it should be (e.g., colored shirts? suits in colors other than black or navy). This may vary coast to coast, but take this HP's advice and stick with the traditional navy or navy pinstripe, or dark grey, with a white or plain blue dress shirt and a tasteful tie. Especially in this legal market, why distract from your substance with your dress? You want us to notice your resume, your credentials, your bright personality. Do you really want us to notice your eggplant colored shirt? If we are noticing it, then it is probably because it is distracting us. You have plenty of time to play fashion Ken. Do it on the weekends.

I had a friend with a very strong New England accent. She got sick of people stopping her when she was speaking and saying it was cute, etc. She got rid of the accent. She explained "I would rather people listen to what I am saying than how I am saying it." She understood the accent was distracting from the message. Take it or leave it, but I think it is an interesting lesson.

I think you asked about shoes and whether loafers are OK. As long as shoes are clean and professional, I think they are fine, though most interviewees (I think) wear lace ups. I said I think because I do not believe I have noticed any one's shoes this interview season. That said, no need to distract. Go with something traditional - and get a shoe shine.

Future Impact of Turning Down Offer

2008-09-15T18:42:00.000-07:00

A couple of you asked about the future impact of turning down a firm's offer. For instance, if a firm gave student Adam a summer associate offer that Adam declined, would Adam hurt his chances of getting an offer from the firm if he tried to join laterally some time later. I can't speak for every firm out there, but I think it unlikely Adam's turning down an offer, say, in 2008 would hurt him in 2011. The practice may vary from firm to firm, but I am not away of firms that research every lateral's prior employment inquiry (versus history) with the firm. The instance in which the "past" could catch up to you is if you acted in a perceived jerky way -- e.g., not responding to offer, submitting odd and inflated expense reimbursement requests, etc. If you act professional and classy when dealing with the firms, you should be judged on your merit going forward. FYI the same goes for the way you treat people when you are an attorney. A few posts back, I warned that it is a small legal world and "people know people." If you've been a total nightmare with whom to deal (e.g, never giving courtesy extensions in litigation, being nasty or dishonest in negotiations, etc.), there is a pretty good chance that word can get out on the street about you. Lateral hiring does involve diligence. In addition to credit and criminal checks, diligence regarding your legal acumen, personality (for fit with firm and its attorneys), ethics and professionalism may be explored. Bear that in mind as you undertake your career. Your exit strategy will be hampered ...or helped...by your reputation in the legal community.

new NALP rules, etc.

2008-09-12T04:39:00.001-07:00

Anonymous (I seem to have a lot of friends here named Anonymous) asked whether HP thinks that the new NALP 45 day rule will have an effect on how quickly firms will notify people of offers after callbacks. (For those who are not familiar with this new rule, candidates have 45 days from the date of an offer to act on that offer -- this is for summer associate positions). My experience is that it is making us act more quickly in giving offers so that we can get a clock started and have an ability to move on to other candidates if a candidate declines an offer.

Anonymous also asked if firms generally try to wait until all candidates from a particular school go through callbacks before making decisions as to which candidates to hire. This varies. We do like to see all the candidates from a school so we can compare and contrast. We prefer to have a mix of law schools in our summer programs. However, even if we have not seen all candidates from a particular school, if we have a candidate who we perceive to be in demand and who we know we want, we will go ahead and issue and offer ASAP. My theory is that hot candidates are more inclined to go to firms that show they are very interested. One year, we had a candidate who we really wanted (good grades, solid undergraduate institution, great outside activities, diverse candidate). We issued the offer about a day after the candidate came in for a callback. The candidate accepted shortly thereafter. Candidate now works for firm.

One other point. This year's market is cooler than in past years. What that means is that I don't feel we need to act on all candidates so quickly. It gives us the opportunity to keep people in "hold" longer than we normally would do so. Thus, if you haven't heard back after a callback, and it has been some time, check in with the recruiting coordinator to express your continued interest. You are probably still on hold and this will help us know that you haven't accepted another offer.

Proof Your Docs, People

2008-09-10T16:23:00.000-07:00

I mentioned this in an earlier post, but today's 2L blunder is worth repeating. Our recruiting coordinator passed along the resume of a 2L male at a good law school. He grades were quite good; he was on law review. His work experience and language capabilities were also very interesting. Normally he would merit a screen, or maybe even a call back because he is local. But, I dinged him. Why?? No, HP wasn't just in a crappy mood. This supposed law review dude put in his e-mail cover 2 references to a different law firm as in "Attached is my resume for consideration for XYZ law firm's summer program (let's say we are ABC firm). If that mail merge disaster wasn't enough, he then said something like "my research has confirmed that XYZ firm's xxxyyy practice (a practice we DON'T have) would fit my interests and experience." To make matters worse, when you opened the actual cover letter, it had our firm name, sort of. The firm name was not correctly spelled and the name was off. So, to quote the dearly departed Bernie Mac, "I ask you AMERICA"...what kind of law review student is this? ATTENTION TO DETAIL PEOPLE! GEEZ.

attire

2008-09-10T16:05:00.000-07:00

A woman commenter asked whether it is still necessary to wear a skirt suit vs. a pant suit to interviews. In most larger cities, a nice pantsuit is perfectly acceptable. Perhaps there are smaller markets where the traditional skirt reigns, but most of the women attorneys I know and surveyed think a tailored pantsuit is appropriate. Should be paired with appropriately fitting shirt -- no gaps, cleavage, etc. Accessories tastefully done. The main point is that you want to present a professional, serious appearance and if there's a big gap showing your bra, this will distract from the interview. A little silly to discuss, I realize, but since you asked, I answered (plus it was kind of an easy one).

Outing Self on Resume

2008-09-08T16:54:00.000-07:00

One of our commenters asked a terrific question. This person said they really want to spend their 1L summer at a gay rights organization or similar group and is concerning about the "outing" effect this would have on their resume as they interview for 2L firm slots.

We HP and recruiting staff are very used to seeing people self identify on their resumes as gay, lesbian, member of certain minority groups, etc. No biggie in most big cities. In fact, we are told to increase diversity, so we are often looking for attorneys from diverse backgrounds. Our clients want diversity, many recruits want diversity, and we have to list our female/minority/gay/lesbian/transgender attorneys on various forms and surveys. So, self-disclosing may actually benefit you. And, if that is what you really want to do as a 1L, i.e. your dream 1L job, then go for it...but I caveat...

There will be some reviewers who will be biased. Of course, they are not supposed to be discriminating. If they turn you down because of your self-identifying, I would say you wouldn't want to work for that person or at that place anyway. The bigger issue -- and this applies not to alternative lifestyles but to any public interest gig -- is that the HP or other reviewer may wonder about your commitment and interest in working in BigLaw. We know most people do not make it to partnership, but we don't want someone who comes in ready to go. And, we wonder about whether someone who is so vested in certain issues could properly advocate/counsel clients who may have diverging interests. We don't like or agree with all our clients, but we have to represent them zealously within the confines of the law. Some years back, I interviewed a bright young woman from a top law school who had worked in many women-oriented organizations, women's advocacy, etc. She claimed she wanted to work in the employment practice of a law firm. I had my doubts about her ability/interest in representing employers (i.e., the clients) in defending them against the claims of say, a lady who alleged pregnancy discrimination. This candidate answered that she saw herself working on advising clients before any troubles, helping with employee handbooks and policies, etc. But I told her that kind of work was only a small part of what the employment lawyers did. Most of it was dog eat dog litigation. Someone alleges discrimination of some covered type. We defend them, usually digging up dirt on employee (e.g., falsified resume in first place, or sent email saying how much she enjoyed working with alleged nasty boss man). I ended up dinging the woman, not because of her work at a women's organization but because I did not see any even medium (not to mention long) term potential at the firm.

So, the long and short of it is that you will be outing yourself, but so be it. Just be aware that the public interest/private interest issue may arise. My advice would be to try to do some work at the organization that might translate in the private sector -- e.g., contract review, interviewing witnesses, drafting affidavits and declarations, research and drafting memoranda, etc. That way, when you write it up next summer on your resume, you will have substantive items to list and discuss that can go beyond the obvious public interest and that you can relate to your law firm interviewing.

I hope that helps. Please keep the good questions and comments coming. Oh, and do we have experienced attorneys out there as well as law students?

Spin?

2008-09-07T10:00:00.000-07:00

One of our commenters asked about how believable the comments by HPs and others are when one is interviewing. He/or is it she since I have now learned there are several fine women attorneys or attorneys to be out there wondered whether it is all spin/some true/false, or what.

My friends, remember, we HPs and interviewers are selling as well as buying. So, of course we do sell. This means different things at different places and yes, this does apply to laterals as well as law students. This HP does not lie. But I do sound enthusiastic about certain groups and people that I may not personally like. Let's say there's a partner or practice group I personally would not want to work in. Do I still recruit people for that group/partner? Yes, I do. That's my job. That said, I try to look for candidates who will fit personality wise with that group/partner.

All firms are spinning. If you think we are not, you are fooling yourselves. I know of a firm that treats women (particularly those with families) like crap. Are they selling themselves these days as family and women friendly? Of course they are. What are they going to say, we only want She-men who will sell lives to firm? At HPs current firm, I think we have good policies and a good work environment, and I don't have to do a whole lot of spinning because I believe in what I am selling, usually. But do keep your eyes open. At my prior firm, a candidate once asked me about what I didn't like about the firm, or what I would change if I were the managing partner. I thought these were good questions, and I gave honest answers that probably gave the candidate some solid information.

So...how to get the straight poop? Ask prior summer associates or associates who worked there, if you know of them. Search Google, Vault, other sites. Check out the composition of the office/firm. If you are a minority candidate and you see no minority partners and few associates, you may not be comfortable there. Same thing for women. If you see 2 or 4 women partners in an office over 100 people...this is not a good sign. At this day in age, where women have come out of law school at the same percentage of men for many years, there should be more women partners, period. I am sure there have been enough highly competent people through the doors over the years there that we can't blame the women. There is likely an issue regarding retention and advancement.

Keeping it Fresh

2008-09-07T04:04:00.000-07:00

Thanks for all your suggestions. It is useful to hear feedback. I've actually really wanted to expand beyond the interviewing/OCI/callback/law student postings but kept getting questions about those issues. In the future, I will address more "actual practice" topics, including participating in firm social events and firm administrative committees, bar associations, etc., as well as positioning yourself for advancement and plotting exit strategies. By the way, I've noticed many of you readers appear to be young male law students. Are there any women out there? Just wondering since I haven't heard from any and I have a "guest" poster who would like to address issues particular to women in the law.

In terms of increasing readership, I know the blog got some attention from abovethelaw.com, abajournal.com and the Wall Street Journal law blog when it first went online. But feel free to share with your friends and others. We can all learn from each other, so the more participation, the better. Even though I have been practicing for a number of years, I know I continue to learn.

Input

2008-09-06T10:08:00.000-07:00

Hey all....HP wonders whether you are really finding this blog useful? HP started it after being frustrated with the "new" generation and thinking you needed some guidance and really just needing to vent. Can I get some feedback as to whether I should continue on these topics? Other topics? Close down the shop? Do you know if people are really interested? I welcome your input too.

call backs and grades

2008-09-06T09:59:00.000-07:00

I believe it was E who asked the question about the lucky Joe whose grades aren't top but who nevertheless scores callback(s)? with big firm(s)? E wondered whether you should address the grades. I wouldn't unless asked directly. The screening interviewer picked you for a reason. It was something you had on paper and/or in interviewing that made him or her advocate for a call back for you. If you were outside of the firm's cut off for your school, the screener often needs to explain to HP or the recruiting committee why they want you back. There could be any number of reasons -- great personality that shows great client relations potential, terrific and on point prior work experience, you speak a particular language they want, the screener just connected with you, etc. So, proceed in the callbacks as you would if grades were not an issue. Be personable, be interested. Of course, those with lower grades may need to "shine" more. Show you are really interested in the firm by having done your research and having good, insightful and on point questions to ask. Express enthusiasm for the firm's practice areas, projects, programs, etc.

On most evaluation forms, there is a place for grades. So, the call back interviewers may check grades good, or fair, but not exceptional. That will be one item in the equation, but we really look at the overall comments from the interviews.

If you are asked about the grades, you need to explain in your best way without getting flustered. If you did have a medical issue or family death, it is ok to generally reference it. If it was a first semester thing and you were getting used to testing style, etc., it is ok to say that. End on a positive note...although my grade in civil procedure first semester did not meet my expectations, I turned it around second semester... something like that. We like to see progress especially from first semester forward.

thoughts on this year's candidates

2008-09-06T09:48:00.000-07:00

I interrupt question answering to provide some insights on this year's candidates whom I have seen thus far in callbacks. I have to say, I am pleasantly surprised. The candidates I have seen have generally been pretty good. Not everyone hit the ball out of the park, but most candidates looked the part, were qualified on paper, and could answer questions intelligently about their summer work experience and why they are interested in HP's firm. Perhaps the tighter legal market is making people step up their game? Perhaps they have been reading HP's blog? Maybe we just have really good screening interviewers? In any event, HP likes to give positive reinforcement as well as constructive criticism, so I just wanted to pass that along.

turning call backs into offers

2008-09-04T16:50:00.000-07:00

Anonymous and Matt asked about callback/offer ratios, i.e., number of callbacks given per summer associate position..and number of offers for each position. This really depends on the firm, the usual "yield," size of program, etc, etc.

If you have terrific grades, stats, and seem to interview well by getting a lot of callbacks, assuming you have callbacks at firms you think you like, I wouldn't accept every call back out there. It is ok to be somewhat selective. Think of this like college applications, though, you will want to have reach firms, firms you stand a good chance of getting in, and safety firms where you think you should get an offer. Now of course, there's no telling what happens. Sometimes one interviewer just won't click with you and will ding you hard, even when you thought you'd breeze through an offer. If your grades are so so, take the callbacks -- all of them -- unless you have absolutely no interest in the firm/city. You need to cover your a**

How do we figure out how many callbacks to give? It really depends. If you are from a local school, it is usual easier to get a callback because we don't factor in travel expenses. And, we probably have a good connection to the school from previous hires. For me, it depends on how we are doing offer-wise; if we have several offers outstanding, I will be tighter on approving callbacks. In terms of offers given for each position, this depends on each firm's usual yield and number of slots in the office. For some firms, you might give 3-4 offers per position or more if not such a "hot" firm (we analyze historical data). In smaller programs where you are only authorized for a few summer associates total in an office, we have to be really careful about oversubscription, so for say 4 slots, we might give 6-7 offers depending on how we sense interest.

turning down call backs

2008-09-03T17:15:00.000-07:00

My new friend E asked another good question about whether one should decline callbacks to firms in which you are no longer interested when you already have an offer. Yes, you should politely decline the offer. The best way to do this is to get in touch (phone preferable) with the person who extended the call back an inform them that you have another offer and that you appreciate the call back but you need to decline. We understand this happens. We HPs don't want people who would rather be someplace else, and we understand that not everyone chooses our firms, so it is fine for you to decline. This will prevent us from wasting time of our attorney and recruiting staff and open up a slot for another classmate of yours or student from another school. If you just get voicemail, go ahead and leave a voice mail and follow up with an email.

Call Back Questions

2008-08-26T05:28:00.000-07:00

Hiring Partner received a question from "E" concerning call back interviews: E asked about the difference between OCI and call backs in terms of substance of the interviews. E wondered whether it is true that the call back interviewers really don't care about grades. A few points about call backs:

-- you are correct, E, that many interviewers in call backs have been told to assume that once screened and invited back, the candidate meets the firm's cutoffs for grades, etc. Some interviewers are nevertheless grade sticklers and may question you about grades. If the grades weren't exactly at top and outside the cutoff a little, I would expect more "wowing" from the candidate.

-- what else is different other than the interviews being longer? In some firms, behavioral interviewing is implemented. That means that each attorney who sees you is assigned a particular attribute to observe and evaluate, e.g., "judgment," "maturity," "interest in firm." They will ask you questions that try to get to these issues. At other firms, these items are standard on the evaluation forms.

-- lunch: typically you will have a lunch with a couple of attorneys. I have said this before, but your lunch conversation, discussion over the meal, and overall demeanor is crucial. Do not let your guard down just because you assume the interview is only over or just because you may be with some younger (junior) attorneys. As HP, if I have a particular issue of concern that I want explored, I will frequently go to the attorneys who will accompany the candidate to lunch and ask them to see if they can judge this issue for me, since they have more time with the candidate.

-- people: since it is a longer day, you will see more people. Hopefully you will meet with men and women attorneys at various points in their careers. Each brings a different background and view of candidates. It is more difficult to impress 6-8 people than the screening interviewer. It is unusual for one candidate to WOW all attorneys on the call back schedule. The goal is not to offend or annoy any of them. If you get a list of names in advance, read their bios, and even Google them. Especially when you have a more reserved interviewer, it is helpful to have some questions that draw on their area of practice, recent experiences etc. If a lawyer's bio says nothing about pro bono or community activities, don't send those questions his or her way.

-- look around. You are a buyer as well as a seller. See what is going on in the office. Quiet? Pleasant seeming? Doors closed? Open? Staff friendly? This is your opportunity to observe as well as to be observed. HP once walked into a very white shoe NYC law firm for an interview and it was colder than Siberia. HP knew this was not the place for HP long term.