Input

Hey all....HP wonders whether you are really finding this blog useful?  HP started it after being frustrated with the "new" generation and thinking you needed some guidance and really just needing to vent.  Can I get some feedback as to whether I should continue on these topics?  Other topics?  Close down the shop?  Do you know if people are really interested?  I welcome your input too.  

call backs and grades

I believe it was E who asked the question about the lucky Joe whose grades aren't top but who nevertheless scores callback(s)? with big firm(s)?  E wondered whether you should address the grades.  I wouldn't unless asked directly.  The screening interviewer picked you for a reason.  It was something you had on paper and/or in interviewing that made him or her advocate for a call back for you.  If you were outside of the firm's cut off for your school, the screener often needs to explain to HP or the recruiting committee why they want you back.  There could be any number of reasons -- great personality that shows great client relations potential,  terrific and on point prior work experience, you speak a particular language they want, the screener just connected with you, etc.  So, proceed in the callbacks as you would if grades were not an issue.  Be personable, be interested. Of course, those with lower grades may need to "shine" more.  Show you are really interested in the firm by having done your research and having good, insightful and on point questions to ask.  Express enthusiasm for the firm's practice areas, projects, programs, etc.  

On most evaluation forms, there is a place for grades.  So, the call back interviewers may check grades good, or fair, but not exceptional. That will be one item in the equation, but we really look at the overall comments from the interviews.

If you are asked about the grades, you need to explain in your best way without getting flustered.  If you did have a medical issue or family death, it is ok to generally reference it.  If  it was a first semester thing and you were getting used to testing style, etc., it is ok to say that.  End on a positive note...although my grade in civil procedure first semester did not meet my expectations, I turned it around second semester...  something like that.  We like to see progress especially from first semester forward. 

thoughts on this year's candidates

I interrupt question answering to provide some insights on this year's candidates whom I have seen thus far in callbacks.  I have to say, I am pleasantly surprised.  The candidates I have seen have generally been pretty good. Not everyone hit the ball out of the park, but most candidates looked the part, were qualified on paper, and could answer questions intelligently about their summer work experience and why they are interested in HP's firm.  Perhaps the tighter legal market is making people step up their game?  Perhaps they have been reading HP's blog?  Maybe we just have really good screening interviewers?  In any event, HP likes to give positive reinforcement as well as constructive criticism, so I just wanted to pass that along.

turning call backs into offers

Anonymous and Matt asked about callback/offer ratios, i.e., number of callbacks given per summer associate position..and number of offers for each position.  This really depends on the firm, the usual "yield," size of program, etc, etc.  

If you have terrific grades, stats, and seem to interview well by getting a lot of callbacks, assuming you have callbacks at firms you think you like, I wouldn't accept every call back out there. It is ok to be somewhat selective.  Think of this like college applications, though, you will want to have reach firms, firms you stand a good chance of getting in, and safety firms where you think you should get an offer. Now of course, there's no telling what happens.  Sometimes one interviewer just won't click with you and will ding you hard, even when you thought you'd breeze through an offer.  If your grades are so so, take the callbacks -- all of them -- unless you have absolutely no interest in the firm/city.  You need to cover your a**

How do we figure out how many callbacks to give?  It really depends.  If you are from a local school, it is usual easier to get a callback because we don't factor in travel expenses. And, we probably have a good connection to the school from previous hires.  For me, it depends on how we are doing offer-wise; if we have several offers outstanding, I will be tighter on approving callbacks.  In terms of offers given for each position, this depends on each firm's usual yield and number of slots in the office.  For some firms, you might give 3-4 offers per position or more if not such a "hot" firm (we analyze historical data).  In smaller programs where  you are only authorized for a few summer associates total in an office, we have to be really careful about oversubscription, so for say 4 slots, we might give 6-7 offers depending on how we sense interest. 

turning down call backs

My new friend E asked another good question about whether one should decline callbacks to firms in which you are no longer interested when you already have an offer.  Yes, you should politely decline the offer.  The best way to do this is to get in touch (phone preferable) with the person who extended the call back an inform them that you have another offer and that you appreciate the call back but you need to decline.  We understand this happens.  We HPs don't want people who would rather be someplace else, and we understand that not everyone chooses our firms, so it is fine for you to decline.  This will prevent us from wasting time of our attorney and recruiting staff and open up a slot for another classmate of yours or student from another school.   If you just get voicemail, go ahead and leave a voice mail and follow up with an email.  

Call Back Questions

Hiring Partner received a question from "E" concerning call back interviews:  E asked about the difference between OCI and call backs in terms of substance of the interviews.  E wondered whether it is true that the call back interviewers really don't care about grades.  A few points about call backs:

-- you are correct, E, that many interviewers in call backs have been told to assume that once screened and invited back, the candidate meets the firm's cutoffs for grades, etc.  Some interviewers are nevertheless grade sticklers and may question you about grades.  If the grades weren't exactly at top and outside the cutoff a little, I would expect more "wowing" from the candidate.

-- what else is different other than the interviews being longer?  In some firms, behavioral interviewing is implemented. That means that each attorney who sees you is assigned a particular attribute to observe and evaluate, e.g., "judgment," "maturity," "interest in firm."   They will ask you questions that try to get to these issues.  At other firms, these items are standard on the evaluation forms.  

-- lunch: typically you will have a lunch with a couple of attorneys. I have said this before, but your lunch conversation, discussion over the meal, and overall demeanor is crucial. Do not let your guard down just because you assume the interview is only over or just because you may be with some younger (junior) attorneys.  As HP, if I have a particular issue of concern  that I want explored, I will frequently go to the attorneys who will accompany the candidate to lunch and ask them to see if they can judge this issue for me, since they have more time with the candidate.  

-- people:  since it is a longer day, you will see more people.  Hopefully you will meet with men and women attorneys at various points in their careers.  Each brings a different background and view of candidates.  It is more difficult to impress 6-8 people than the screening interviewer.  It is unusual for one candidate to WOW all attorneys on the call back schedule. The goal is not to offend or annoy any of them.  If you get a list of names in advance, read their bios, and even Google them.  Especially when you have a more reserved interviewer, it is helpful to have some questions that draw on their area of practice, recent experiences etc.  If a lawyer's bio says nothing about pro bono or community activities, don't send those questions his or her way.  

-- look around. You are a buyer as well as a seller.  See what is going on in the office.  Quiet?  Pleasant seeming?  Doors closed? Open?  Staff friendly?  This is your opportunity to observe as well as to be observed.  HP once walked into a very white shoe NYC law firm for an interview and it was colder than Siberia.  HP knew this was not the place for HP long term.  

I'm Back -- Reports from the Trenches

Hello Readers:

As you can see from the delays in posts, Hiring Partner has been busy with...well, hiring.  The on campus interview season is in full swing and some call backs have started in certain firms.  I'm happy to report that the candidates I have seen have come to the interviews prepared, enthusiastic, and generally acting normal.  You might be wondering what sets people apart when we see many people in an on campus interview day, or call back interviewees over the next several weeks. 

Of course, grades, and journals, moot court, etc matter.  That is how we screen in or out at first impression.  If you don't make the cut off, I may still give you an interview if you have a particular background that matches a practice area where we have a hiring need.  After that, when we meet, I am judging on your maturity, judgment (best I can tell in the short time we have together), interest in firm/office, conversational skills.  Each HP is different.  I look for someone who looks me in the eye, speaks clearly and intelligently about their work experience and interest in the city/firm/office, and seems like a go getter.  I also consider if this is someone that I could take with me to a client's office tomorrow.  If I have to train you how to act professionally and normally, I am passing.   Maybe some other firm is willing to take you, put you in the library for two years, and then think about bringing you out. But that is not how any of the firms I have worked at viewed recruiting.  I want someone who could be sent out to a client as a first year associate and not embarrass us.  Yes, I did meet clients as a first year associate (at a very large firm, no less).  

Dos:

-- read up on the firm and in particular the office in which you are interested.  Most of us on the other side of the table notice when you bring up a case, transaction, etc that someone in our office handled, or a review from one of the major sources (e.g., Chambers, Vault).  It shows you did some homework.  I know I mentioned this before, but it is really important.

-- treat lunch in a call back just like the rest of the day.  It is still an interview. In fact, I pay particular attention to the comments of the lunch partners you had because they spent more time with you and in a different setting.

-- don't be too cocky. Even if you are top 10 at your school and you think you can reach higher than the firm you are talking to, don't appear aloof or cocky.  It is always better to have more options, especially in this type of economy.  

-- if your resume says you worked at X, be prepared that we may check references if we are serious about you. Remember, we know people at many places, you would be surprised, and we can easily pick up the phone and made an inquiry. 

A few quick don'ts from my and my friends' recent experiences:

-- no loose slang.  "That sucked," "The professor screwed me on that grade."  You get dinged for that in many books.  We are not so shocked by the language but it goes to judgment and maturity.  We have clients from all walks of life.  Many of them would not want to hear that in the workplace.

-- keep giggling to a minimum.  My former colleague saw a well qualified candidate, but she kept giggling (nervous?) and did not seem focused on areas of practices, thoughts about particular offices, etc.  Someone with grades significantly lower than the giggler got the call back. 

-- don't treat the recruiting coordinators like crap.  Be respectful when you call and email.  They actually will report back to us when someone seems great, or like a jerk.  We factor this in.  

I know you folks have asked several questions and I will be answering them shortly.  Thanks for your patience.